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Old 07-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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A discussion with the Guru himself... Don Moyer!

Good morning to all Afourians!

Just got off the phone with Don... what a fabulous man, he is simply a wealth of information and advice.

The issue... a broken set pin on my forward pressure plate. After clarifying a few questions on my photo provided to him he was able to come up with the solution to fix my pressure plate without tearing apart my gearbox.

As well a suggestion to address my excessive smoke caused by the engine blow by... I'm heading to my slip and I should have all the things addressed by dinner tonight.

Again Don... I do thank you for taking the time to advise me and for all your help this morning, it is very much appreciated!!

Cheers and safe travels!

Mel
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:24 PM
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Mine did that as well, probably half as much as yours, i was still able to use the bolt. it is not really how i want it so I am looking forward to your fix. Thanks for posting a Pic. i couldnt figure out how.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:05 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is online now
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blow-by

"As well a suggestion to address my excessive smoke caused by the engine blow by..."

Please share.....?
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:28 PM
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boat View Post
Mine did that as well, probably half as much as yours, i was still able to use the bolt. it is not really how i want it so I am looking forward to your fix. Thanks for posting a Pic. i couldnt figure out how.
Sorry for the delay in response.... I was able to fish out the original set bolt out of the oil pan, by use of a magnet.

Found the missing part of the pressure plate.. all 2 pieces totally accounted for.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
"As well a suggestion to address my excessive smoke caused by the engine blow by..."

Please share.....?

Hi Marty..

My smoke problem I believe is mostly caused by this add on oil vent cap on my gearbox cover plate.

I had a new gearbox cover plate made by water jet cut so as to not to distort the steel plate and matching exactly the locations for the 4 bolt throughs. Everything except the crazy vent cap.

I don't know why the previous owner had it installed in the first place.

As a result... There is hardly any to no smoke in the cabin, I smell it more at the back of thru hull exhaust and only if she has been sitting for a while. But it usually clears up after 10 ins of running.

Next up, I am looking into installing the Indigo PVC valve... to the further reduce any oily smoke.

I can't do much about the oil filler cap at the front of the engine... But it certainly smells a lot better and my CO2 sensor isn't going off every 5 mins!!! In fact hasn't gone off at all since I installed the new cover plate.

Hope this helps you Marty.

Cheers,
Mel
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:07 AM
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You've got a vee drive, just like mine.

The point of that oil cap, which is standard on vee drive installations, is...uh...to allow you to put oil into the engine. Do you have good access to the fill cap on the other side of the engine? I don't. But I don't have exhaust smells in the cabin, even with this fill cap setup. It does sometimes drip tiny amounts of oil.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenders View Post
You've got a vee drive, just like mine.

The point of that oil cap, which is standard on vee drive installations, is...uh...to allow you to put oil into the engine. Do you have good access to the fill cap on the other side of the engine? I don't. But I don't have exhaust smells in the cabin, even with this fill cap setup. It does sometimes drip tiny amounts of oil.
Hello Tenders..

Are you serious!!????!

Well your comment came a little late.. the original plate is now at the local re-cycling depot.

If that is the case I have two choices...

1) crawl thru the lazaret to re-fill the oil on changes and top ups or...

2) Add a section of 2" black pipe that is welded on with a screw on end cap.

Either way the oil smell is mostly gone and/or greatly reduced... I can actually enjoy the cabin now while underway and not have this thick smog of smoke in the cabin.

It takes me an hour and a half to travel to open waters before I can raise sail for the Gulf Islands... I think, I'll try it for a while and see how it works under a full day of cruising.

Thank you for you'r suggestion... it is much appreciated.


Cheers.

Mel
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion C&C 33 View Post

1) crawl thru the lazaret to re-fill the oil on changes and top ups or...

2) Add a section of 2" black pipe that is welded on with a screw on end cap.
Or, modify your new reversing gear plate with a tube and a sealed cap.

Peter
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Or, modify your new reversing gear plate with a tube and a sealed cap.

Peter
I think that was Melís choice #2. Itís not a bad idea at all...but he could have done that with the original plate too. Although the tube on the original plate is probably not thick enough to support cutting threads into it, still would have required some welding/machining.

There is a viable choice #3: just take the four bolts of that plate off when you want to add oil. In a typical season, I rarely if ever have to add oil. Itís easier to get the oil out that way too. You just need a gasket that will hold up to repeated removal - rubber instead of cork, perhaps. Or use a small funnel and add a bit through the dipstick tube.

My posting was less than seven hours after yours...youíre just too darn efficient with the recycler for your own good! I keep anything thatís been removed from my boat or engine for years before giving it up! (This is not a healthy habit either, I realize.)
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenders View Post
I think that was Melís choice #2.
Of course - I first read it as attaching the additional tube to the oil fill on the flywheel end.

P
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:21 PM
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Thank you Peter / Tender...

I've spent more time these last few weeks repainting, replacing the prop shaft, repacking the sweat gland, changing out the fluids and working on my engine issues for the last few weeks... frustrating at times for sure.

She's cleaner now and my Atomic runs way better now than when I took ownership... She has been neglected for over 8 years, just sitting in the water with the previous owner. A nice man, but he didn't have it any longer in him to look after everything after his heart attack and hip issues.

I'm very glad to have joined this forum... It's a great place to source out solutions to my issues and again thank you all!!

Now, that I've isolated and resolved the biggest source of my engine smoke... I look forward to enjoying the day on board and of course weekend trips to the Gulf Islands.

With less than two weeks to go before my first trip of the season... It's good to know my engine is up to snuff.

Cheers!

mel
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenders View Post

My posting was less than seven hours after yours...you’re just too darn efficient with the recycler for your own good! I keep anything that’s been removed from my boat or engine for years before giving it up! (This is not a healthy habit either, I realize.)
Time and tides waits for no man..!!! I have been a driven man to get my boat in ship shape order. 7 hrs can seem like an eternity when the weather is good and you see everyone else enjoying the water as one sits on the hard.

I've started a log... recording all the repairs, part numbers and suppliers since I started this minor retrofit. It will be a great source to refer back to if something goes wrong.

ie: where did I get that part from..

The only original part I'm keeping for a while, is the water pump impeller... it seems to be a hard part to find locally. Heading back to the marine supply store to buy the last one available.

Happy sailings!!

Mel
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Orion C&C 33 View Post
Now, that I've isolated and resolved the biggest source of my engine smoke... I look forward to enjoying the day on board and of course weekend trips to the Gulf Islands.
I don't think so. You still have the smoke, only sealed off one place where it was getting out. The symptom is addressed for now but not the cause. There's merit in reducing cabin smoke but expect it's been moved to somewhere else. Did you do anything with the ignition timing?
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:16 AM
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Parts and help

Hey Mel,

I just noticed you are in Richmond. Greetings from Bowen Island!

If you can get up to Stone's Marina in Nanaimo you will find Robert Hess (Hesse?). He's the wet coast version of Don Moyer - a true A4 guru. He's semi-retired but I understand he sometimes still works on A4's.

Good luck!
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:20 PM
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I don't think so. You still have the smoke, only sealed off one place where it was getting out. The symptom is addressed for now but not the cause. There's merit in reducing cabin smoke but expect it's been moved to somewhere else. Did you do anything with the ignition timing?
Hi Neil..

The ignition timing is next... Don Moyer explained it to me and I got the basic jest of it all. I've never done a slight twist to the rotor Left or right and I'm not quite sure of the lock nut, he was talking about.

The one thing I've noticed since changing out the fuel pump... the RPMs have increased to 1000 from about 800 rpm... So, I am contemplating fidgeting with the carburetor idle to bring it down a bit but it is an obscenely narrow space to work in.

I still need to fine tune the forward and reverse in the gear box before tackling those two items. Reason being the engine is working fine and I just want to take and resolve one issue at a time and not screw things up before I get it all done.

But yes timing is on the list for sure.... As I was re-adjusting the forward pressure plate I notices it was filled with white acrid smoke the same smell as before starting all this.

So Neil, yes I would agree with you that I only confined it and not addressed the issue... But I do like to study "cause and effects"... so once I adjust the timing I'll simply pop open the gear box and see how much smoke is wafting inside.

If there is non, then it was the timing being slightly off.

If it continues with minimal smoke... Well let's just say that is the nature of a 40 plus year old engine that probably requires a rebuild to freshen up.... If that is the case it won't be for a couple of years... I do want to enjoy the boat and not be tied up at the dock continually making repairs and watching others have fun..

Cheers Neil... and thank you for your suggestion.

Mel
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:28 PM
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Hey Marty...!!!

Yes, I noticed you were on Bowen Island... we tried to book into Steamworks to do an overnighter but unfortunately they're all booked solid for the month.

Too bad it would be nice to meet a fellow Afourian... over a beer or two!!

Stay in touch!! You'll never know when I be setting course your way.

Cheers and happy sailing!

Mel
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:46 AM
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> I've never done a slight twist to the rotor Left or right and I'm not quite sure of the lock nut, he was talking about.
...
> I just want to take and resolve one issue at a time and not screw things up before I get it all done. If there is none, then it was the timing being slightly off.

You'll find this to be very straightforward once you see the simple moving parts. It's so easy and fundamental to the proper operation of the engine that I would suggest doing this timing tuning first if it could be contributing to the smoke problem.

> So, I am contemplating fidgeting with the carburetor idle to bring it down a bit but it is an obscenely narrow space to work in.

Yeah baby. That's why Don has this:
https://moyermarine.com/product/idle...fcar_02-1_508/

Actually I find even the increased diameter to be a bit small to twist by hand so I'm considering epoxying a disc of G10 to the shaft, below where the screwdriver thread bottoms out, and cutting some gnurls into the G10 with a Dremel for better grip.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:25 AM
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Ted (tenders) won't mention this, but I will. He was the inventor of this handy little add-on. I can't even guess how many of these we have sold.

Bill
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion C&C 33 View Post
The ignition timing is next... Don Moyer explained it to me and I got the basic jest of it all. I've never done a slight twist to the rotor Left or right and I'm not quite sure of the lock nut, he was talking about.
Mel-
See the attached pic.
The arrow shows the hold-down bracket on my distro.

There is also an instructional video here that is worth every penny of the $12 fee...
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:21 PM
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Mel-
See the attached pic.
The arrow shows the hold-down bracket on my distro.

There is also an instructional video here that is worth every penny of the $12 fee...

A big thank you Jerry!!! Much appreciated!



Cheers!!
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:04 PM
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I just want to post a update on the change out of the gearbox cover... I noticed on one of my searches on the web that there are 3 types of gearbox covers.

Two of which have no tube and one with tube and cap for the Atomic $... It was mentioned on a post from a fellow Afourian that I was trapping the gases and that I have not dealt with the problem.

Well I'm happy to say along with my better half.... we are totally enjoying the adventures on the water without all that smoky smell and at times thick smoke permeating the cabin.

The lingering smell would give me a headache when we turned in for the night.

After a day out on the water both under sail and power... the cabin environment is a lot less toxic with the change out of the gearbox plate.

I'm glad I did... no regrets and the engine is running fine.

Thank you for all your input all!!

Cheers and happy sailing!
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:18 PM
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I just want to thank Don and Ken who both helped me diagnoise some problems with my A4. I had what i thought was carp problems so i called to order a bunch of parts to rebuild it. Well the first call Ken answered and convinced me to dig around a little more first. We talked for halfd an hour while i crawled around in the boat checking the fuel pump and carb. I ended up getting her started without any additional parts (i had already given the ignition system an upgrade).
Well it ran for about 40 minutes very sweetly and then died. I was convinced that i had a bad carb again so i called to order a rebuild kit. Well Don answered this time and after 20 minute or so he remotely diagnoised my issue as being out of gas. I wasn't convinced, but it sounded good to me so i checked. Despite having 2-3 gallons in the tank the pickup seemed to be just above the fuel. I filled her up and she has been running well ever since.

Between Don and Ken they probably saved me $3-400 in parts and lots of time and agrivation. Plus they only sold me the parts i actually needed.

Thanks for the EXCELLENT customer service. All businesses should be like this.
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