Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Fuel System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 71.112.53.68
Old 07-10-2009, 10:57 PM
rkllogjeri rkllogjeri is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Engine Died Again

Well,

So I am buffeled with my engine as it chronically runs for an hour, dies and strarts right up 10 minutes later. Checked the coil and i have spark. Emptied the fuel tank completely, filled with clean gas. Checked the spark plugs and they are clean. I still don;t know why this is happening. Any more ideas. I have read through the threads that it is a fuel related problem but how? Do i need to remove the carb and see how it is looking inside? If the carb was the issue how can it be that 10 minutes later the engine start? Do the impurities clear up so quickly? I am at my wits end and don;t know how much more i can take of this before i really put the boat out of comission for the summer? Please help.
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 71.252.20.96
Old 07-10-2009, 11:08 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
When the engine dies, do you immediately (I mean immediately) check for spark? My engine would run reliably for 75 minutes and fade out & die as if I had a fuel problem..I am now convinced it was the coil getting hot. If I tried to restart it right away, it would run for 5 more minutes, then 2, then 30 seconds, and then finally would not restart (uh oh...close the thru-hull while cranking on my Catalina 30!!)

I think the coil would get hot, and then it would magically start up again when I needed it after I checked a few things, like poked around for fuel delivery, pulled a plug wire, made sure I had 12 volts, etc.etc.., let it sit for a minute, and then it would run for 5 minutes or so. When I tested it repeatedly, immediately after failure (I thought I was seeing spark when I pulled a plug wire)...eventually, it would no longer run.

Fortunately, I had navigable waters, & a patient wife who was willing to try something new (sail into the raft up with friends!! ) - I've had no problems like this since I replaced the coil.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 07-10-2009 at 11:12 PM. Reason: more detail
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 76.101.146.224
Old 07-11-2009, 08:07 AM
mike7a10's Avatar
mike7a10 mike7a10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Posts: 117
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I also had the same issue a couple of years ago and I replaced my coil and haven't had any problems since. The coil sounds like it is getting overheated and caused the coil to malfuntion. The coil will cool down relatively quickly and then the engine starts up and runs fine until it overheats again.

Coils are fairly inexpensive and worth a shot. I have not done this myself but I have read some threads that it may be worth considering removing the coil from its bracket on the engine and mounting it away from the engin on the bulkhead inside of your engine compartment. This will require a longer coil wire however. Seems like a logical idea.

Best of luck with your engine.
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 69.23.66.15
Old 07-11-2009, 08:22 AM
hd78half hd78half is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Engine Dies

Yep. Likewise I had the same problem and it was the coil. Check the resistance across the coil. I think that the A-4 requires 3.5 ohms. If it is any less the coil will overheat and fail. Sometimes you can start it right back up and run in idle but as soon as you put a load on the motor the coil will overheat and begin to fail again.

You can order a new coil from Moyer for about $39 and have it in time to install before next weekend.

Al Lankford
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 76.247.171.195
Old 07-11-2009, 12:02 PM
dvd's Avatar
dvd dvd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Joaquin Delta, California
Posts: 449
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts
If you have an in line fuel filter it could be clogging after powering for a while. I would check this out. Just a thought as I have had these same symptoms with car engines and it turned out that the fuel filter was clogged. It would run for while and then start to sputter and die. If you waited for a while the engine would start only to do the same thing after running for a while.

DVD
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 74.218.61.113
Old 07-11-2009, 02:41 PM
msmith10's Avatar
msmith10 msmith10 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 474
Thanks: 19
Thanked 62 Times in 46 Posts
If you haven't installed a rubber priming bulb in the fuel line, do it now. When the engine starts to die, squeeze the bulb a few times. If it revs back up, or restarts right away, you've probably got a fuel issue. My tank is dirty and my filters clog quickly. I know it's time to change filters when the engine starts to sputter and the priming bulb revives it.
__________________
Mark Smith
1977 c&c30 Mk1 hailing from Port Clinton, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 71.112.58.204
Old 07-12-2009, 11:38 PM
rkllogjeri rkllogjeri is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you all for your help so far. I went ahead an ordered a new coil from Moyer Marine and am looking forward to seeing if that fixes my problem. I will also install a new priming bulb just before to see if that help. I replaced the fuel/water seperator about a month ago. I will try to run the engine from a 5 gallon external tank to see if it dies. It is does than I am definitely removing the fuel tank. Thank you all.

Aldi Kllogjeri
S/V Sandspur Catalina 27
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 71.252.20.96
Old 07-12-2009, 11:42 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Aldi,

Your 3 ideas are good ones..I would recommend each one, one at a time, so you can try to figure out which was the issue.

I recently removed my squeezy priming bulb from my system, since I realized that squeezing the crap out of it didn't solve my engine quitting problem..it still died. It turns out, it was the coil..the mech. fuel pump had no problem sucking fuel from the tank on my boat.

My point is, try one at a time, so you know the solution!!
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 71.112.58.204
Old 07-12-2009, 11:47 PM
rkllogjeri rkllogjeri is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shawn,

Thank you. I plan to do that one at a time as it does get expensive if i start replacing part without knowing where the problem lies. I will aslo revome the coil from the engine mount somewhere else away from a lot of vibration and less direct engine heat. I hope the coil fixes everything since it is the least expensive to replace. Aldi
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 209.128.29.254
Old 08-11-2009, 08:26 AM
HalfHourEarly HalfHourEarly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dies and then starts back up in 5 - 10 Minutes

I seem to be having a similar problem. With no rhyme or reason my A4 just shuts off (sometimes) after 1hr or so of running. When it shuts off I check the spark on a plug, I have no spark. By the time I get back to the points, I get spark there. Put everything back together and I now have spark on the plug and everything runs again.

The coil on my boat is labeled "for use with external resistor". What does that resistor look like and where would I likely find it? Or, could I test with a multimemeter to see if it's in the circuit? Another question is: what would be the symptoms of using this coil without an external resistor?

Help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 142.68.241.121
Old 08-11-2009, 09:57 AM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfHourEarly View Post
I seem to be having a similar problem. With no rhyme or reason my A4 just shuts off (sometimes) after 1hr or so of running. When it shuts off I check the spark on a plug, I have no spark. By the time I get back to the points, I get spark there. Put everything back together and I now have spark on the plug and everything runs again.
I can't answer your resistor question, but it sure sounds like your problem is electrical, not fuel or air. Sounds like an electrical connection inside or outside of a device where the connection builds up resistance with heat and then functions again as it cools. I gather the coil is a usual suspect, but consider any solenoids and switches that might be in the system too, and check all wiring connections in the ignition circuit.
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 64.231.123.210
Old 08-11-2009, 10:50 AM
67c&ccorv's Avatar
67c&ccorv 67c&ccorv is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 1,559
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfHourEarly View Post
I seem to be having a similar problem. With no rhyme or reason my A4 just shuts off (sometimes) after 1hr or so of running. When it shuts off I check the spark on a plug, I have no spark. By the time I get back to the points, I get spark there. Put everything back together and I now have spark on the plug and everything runs again.

The coil on my boat is labeled "for use with external resistor". What does that resistor look like and where would I likely find it? Or, could I test with a multimemeter to see if it's in the circuit? Another question is: what would be the symptoms of using this coil without an external resistor?

Help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve
In regards to your last question: exactly the symptons you have described in the first paragraph.

In regards to your first question: the ballast resistor should be somewhere in the + feed to the coil just before the + terminal. If you can not see it (and the coil is labelled for use with external resistor) then I think you have found the problem!
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 209.128.29.254
Old 08-11-2009, 11:01 AM
HalfHourEarly HalfHourEarly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rigspelt

Thanks for the input. I have gone back through some of the primary and I did find some bad connections and have cleaned them up. I am hesitant to assume I've fixed it yet though. I will look for solinoids/switches to clean up as well.

Another Symptom that I have is that I get some sooting on my #1 and #4 plugs. I am in the process of replacing the plug wires so I don't want to mix up 2 different issues, but perhaps they are related.

I do want to order a new coil so I'm still very interested in an answer to my question about the reseitor if anyone can help.

thanks
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 209.128.29.254
Old 08-11-2009, 11:06 AM
HalfHourEarly HalfHourEarly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks 67c&ccorv

I will do some more looking and hopefully the previous owner has just bought the wrong coil. He only did very short 15 min - 45 min motors so he may not have experienced this as I have since doing some more cruising. Thanks again for all the help. Keep it coming please.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 193.253.220.149
Old 08-12-2009, 03:46 AM
Kelly's Avatar
Kelly Kelly is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brest, France
Posts: 663
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
I've been through this problem so I usually pipe-up with my limited experience and insight.

Similar symptoms: engine runs well for 60-90 minutes before dying suddenly. Restarts 15-30 minutes later and cycle starts over.

I changed/adjusted three things and this problem went away: new coil, new condenser (often overlooked but a possible source of this type of behavior) and cleaned electrical connections in the ignition circuit.

This was my solution but another possibility could be falling oil pressure that eventually trips the low oil pressure sensor. After cooling and thickening of the oil, the engine could start anew and the fun of the cycle continues...

Kelly
__________________
Kelly

1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda Ketch, Wind and Atomic powered

Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 209.128.29.254
Old 08-17-2009, 10:30 AM
HalfHourEarly HalfHourEarly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just had the engine die on me agaain this weekend but it took over an hour for it to come back. In the meantime I started going back through everything that is in the ignition. I did discover that the points gap was about 2 - 3 times wider than it should be so I corrected that. Does anyone have any thought on whether that could be a root to the problem (intermitted points contact overheating coil, etc.)

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 68.104.51.117
Old 08-17-2009, 10:39 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
How does it run BEFORE it dies?
Have you CLEANED the points? (Just touch them up with a piece of cardboard)

While you're in there make sure the wire to the coil isn't shorting.
(Usually where it leaves the distributor housing)

For what it's worth, I still suspect your coil...
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine Sputters and Coughs, and Needed Choke to Run Smooth CaptainChas Troubleshooting 9 06-30-2009 10:50 PM
Engine Dies after approx one hour Trysail Troubleshooting 4 08-07-2008 11:15 AM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer General Interest 13 06-27-2008 11:06 AM
engine died no compression??? casey Troubleshooting 3 07-29-2006 06:24 AM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer Ranger 7 12-12-2005 12:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved