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  #1   IP: 24.224.152.244
Old 06-12-2013, 07:27 PM
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Smile Did you know.

Just a bit of trivia.

Why a knot is a knot.

Why is speed at sea measured in knots?
Because 15th-century sailors didn’t have GPS…
Adventure novels and history books are filled with harrowing stories of sailing ships delayed at sea—tales of sailors running low on food and fresh water, dying of scurvy, and getting trapped in the doldrums, or the tropics during storm season. Unless sailors knew how fast they were going, they could end up days off schedule, endangering those on board and worrying loved ones awaiting them in port.

“With no landmarks to gauge their progress across the open sea, sailors couldn’t tell how fast or how far they were traveling,” explains Camila Caballero, an MIT senior and the academic coordinator for Amphibious Achievement, an athletic and academic outreach program for urban youth in Boston. But when the nautical mile – 1.852 kilometers – was introduced in the 15th century, they had a handy standard against which to measure speed and created out of necessity the chip log, the world’s first maritime speedometer. “They used materials they had on hand,” she explains. “A wedge-shaped piece of wood, a small glass timer, and a really long rope.”

But not just any rope would do. Based on the length of the nautical mile, knots were tied along the log line at intervals of 14.4 meters. One end was secured to the ship’s stern and the other was attached to the wooden board, which was dropped into the water. “As one sailor watched the sand empty through the 30-second glass, his shipmate held the line as it played out behind the ship and counted the knots as they passed between his fingers,” says Caballero. Dividing that 14.4 meters by 30 seconds told them that one knot equaled 1.85166 kilometers per hour, or one nautical mile. By performing the calculation using the actual number of knots that unspooled, the sailors were able to measure the ship’s speed.

The average of frequent measurements taken throughout the day proved to be a highly accurate reflection of how fast a ship was moving. The data was used to help them navigate by dead reckoning, the method used before the advent of modern instruments.

Today, maritime speed is determined by ultrasonic sensors or Doppler measurement, and the 30-second divisor in the rate equation has been replaced by 28. But the instrument for measuring a vessel’s speed is still called a log, and marine and aeronautical distances are still measured in nautical miles. “Maps used at sea and in the air are based on the earth’s circumference,” says Caballero. “Their scale varies with latitude, and the nautical mile, about 500 feet longer than the land mile, reconciles those differences.”

And in both today’s pilothouse and cockpit, the speed equal to one nautical mile an hour is still called a knot, the term an echo of the days when crewmembers of square-riggers and caravels got creative with a few simple materials and produced an essential and significant little gadget.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:45 PM
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Thanks for that , Mo; sure makes us look spoiled with our GPS and other tools.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:31 PM
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Thanks Mo. I think we have all heard some version of knots.

My question is with the application of the word. We say knots for nautical miles per hour. so then why dont we say knot, for one nautical mile. It would make it easier to say knot instead of nautical mile.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romantic comedy View Post
Thanks Mo. I think we have all heard some version of knots.

My question is with the application of the word. We say knots for nautical miles per hour. so then why dont we say knot, for one nautical mile. It would make it easier to say knot instead of nautical mile.
Got me.....I have no idea. My bet is the measuring with a knot was a take on the "nautical mile" ... boys with some rum in them. LOL
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:22 AM
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Thanks, Mo. I always like hearing nautical history.

Any celestial navigators out there?

Chris
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:46 AM
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Smile

I found that tidbit online...just copied and pasted...but I'd heard it before in the Navy.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:05 AM
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Me.
Getting an accurate site on a small boat in big waves is a major PITA.

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Originally Posted by Skywalker View Post
Thanks, Mo. I always like hearing nautical history.

Any celestial navigators out there?

Chris
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:27 AM
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Smile For want of a sighting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
Me.
Getting an accurate site on a small boat in big waves is a major PITA.
Not being able to get a sighting in fog and snow, for days on end, led to the following disaster of the Truxton and Pollux. I grew up a mile from Argentia knew more of the US armed forces than Canadian as a child. During WWII Argentia was a US Navy Base and Air Station. The base closed in 1992. The signing of the Atlantic Charter (Roosevelt and Churchill) happened withing sight of home.



Little did the people of St. Lawrence dream upon retiring Tuesday night, Feb. 17, 1942 that on awakening one of the worst sea disasters in United States naval history would have happened right on their doorstep. The disaster occurred when the 1,200-ton destroyer Truxton crashed ashore at Chamber Cove on the outer side of St. Lawrence and almost simultaneously, the 6,085-ton supply ship Pollux ran aground at Lawn Point a mile and a half westward.

The disaster occurred at 4.30 in the morning in the height of a blinding snow storm. Far was it from the thoughts of those men working at Iron Springs Co., that death and distress was lurking in the angry sea less than a mile away. One can visualize their suprise and dismay when a water-soaked oil-covered U.S. sailor from the Truxtun approached them, bringing news of the tragedy. He with three other crew members had succeeded in reaching land and, after scaling the icy cliffs they were making a desperate attempt to find assistance for their crew mates still aboard the doomed ship.

Immediately all mining operations were suspended and the miners, with all the necessary equipment, rushed to the scene. As the news spread through the town, residents hastened to join in the rescue.

From the vantage point of the almost unscalable cliffs, nearly 200 feet high at Chamber Cove, the indescribable scene was presented. Heavy seas crashed over the remains of the doomed vessel, and men clung desperately to the wreckage while waves were dashing them back in the angry waters.

The storm and the mountainous seas made the task of rescue most hazardous. Men were lowered down by ropes over the precipitous cliffs, time and time again, ricking their lives as in many cases they plunged into seas to secure a victim from the hungry waves or from rocks on which a precarious foothold had been obtained. The indomitable courage typical of the true Newfoundlander was displayed, and little thought was given to the risk as long as a life could be saved.
Rescuers attempted getting a rope across the cove to make connections with the wreck, but strength of wind defeated them. In hopes of saving three men clinging to the wreckage, two men volunteered to be lowered down over the cliffs in a dory. They reached the wreck, saved two men, were swamped coming back, and one local man was washed overboard. As he was seized in the nick of time by his companions and hauled to safety. And so the hazardous task of rescue continued all through the day, till the last living men had been landed.

Many and sad were the scenes that presented themselves. While this rescue was proceeding news came that a second ship, the Pollux, was ashore at Lawn Park. And so, as many men as could be spared proceeded there to join others from the nearby town of Lawn. A boat from the Pollux was successful in getting a line ashore. By this means and other contrivances the rescues were effected. When taken from the water the survivors for the most were in a bad way - covered in crude oil, frostbitten, damaged by their buffeting, exhausted by their ordeal.

They were carried as quickly as possible to Iron Springs, where emergency First Aid stations had been prepared. By this time salvage ships had arrived from Argentia bringing medical aid. These professionals, along with men and women of the town, worked incessantly and untiringly to restore life and ease to the suffering.

They were then moved to St. Lawrence where the people opened their homes to them, provided them with food and clothing, and in every way possible administered to their ease and comfort. After two days of recuperation in these hospitable homes, they were removed by salvage ships to the hospital at Argentia.

Quoting A.L. Bristol Rear Admiral U.S. Navy at that time in his letter of gratitude to the people of St. Lawrence, "Memories of such acts can never die, and the total of almost two hundred men and officers saved on this occasion will stand as a monument to the people of St,. Lawrence and all Newfoundland, in the hearts and minds of all who know the story."

In generous recognition of the services rendered, the United States Government has erected at St. Lawrence a modern, three story hospital. the all-concrete structure, completed in 1954, is known as the United States Memorial Hospital. This hospital has been taking care of the medical needs of St. Lawrence, Lawn and nearby towns most adequately. Many the time this quotation has been made by a grateful townfolk - "THEY DID NOT DIE IN VAIN".


I attached a google earth photo....it's pretty accurate. They missed the opening of Placentia Bay by about 8 miles. Their last sighting was a number of day previously if memory serves me correctly. They tried to blame the nav on one of the ships and the other for staying with him....Personally, I think he was pretty damn close coming all the way from Boston. (I think they came from Boston). The long red line is where they were headed...the red astrix on the shorter red line is where there drove into the cliffs.
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 06-13-2013 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:33 AM
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Hi Mo, " 15th century sailors didn't have GPS"???? Mo, Are you making this stuff up or what?? LOL! True life adventures has so many lessons to be gleaned I don't understand why Hollywood has to make crap up. People who lived through the ordeal described think the incident will never be forgotten and yet 100 years later most have never heard of the incident. ( I hadn't) Sad really. The Irish Princess incident on the St. Lawrence seaway is another tragic tale.
Today we live in a world where the US vice president says to shoot a shotgun through the door of your home if someone comes a knocking. We drive down the interstate highway and if there is a cop on the side of the road with the blue lights on everyone in both directions slows down to 35mph, yet if someone is broke down we zoom by at 70mph and can't even move over a lane.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:18 PM
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Yeah, I hear ya...generally, when tragedy strikes good people come out of the fog. Just look at Oklahoma a couple of weeks ago... the whole affected area was filled with normal folk, not affected by the disaster, helping people collect personal belongings, family pics, etc... my kind of people as well.
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The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:03 PM
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Dead Reckoning. Truxton Pollux

Other Links .... much more accurate account of events.

http://www.mun.ca/mha/polluxtruxtun/
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 06-13-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:28 PM
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Thanks for this thead Mo.
You Newfies are known to be a pretty hardy sort of folks and the rescue efforts of the townspeople to help in this disaster is a testament to their hearts.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:24 PM
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My wife's grandparents and relatives were involved with that...I heard the story first hand...and more. They were from Lawn. Anyway, just goes to show us how wrong we can be when we think we are right.
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The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:40 AM
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Mo, great writing!!!!! You have a gift.
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:00 AM
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Romantic,

I didn't write it. I did a search to find it. Joe had put in an entry re: difficulty getting a celestial sighting with a sextant. I immediately remembered this story where these (3) ships went aground (the Wilkes got off again) because of a series of minor mistakes. The best info on it, that I could find, is from Memorial University in Newfoundland. Worth the read though.

I've been wet and cold but not in the conditions these guys, both shipwrecked and rescurers, endured. I grew up close-by and know the seas and conditions they did it in. Figured it was worth a read on a slow night

http://www.mun.ca/mha/polluxtruxtun/
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The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:40 AM
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We ended up finding Bermuda old-school. To make SURE we mised the outlying reefs to the east we ran a latitude line north of the island and waited for the radio beacon on the island to bear due south and ran the RDF line in to the island.
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_db View Post
We ended up finding Bermuda old-school. To make SURE we mised the outlying reefs to the east we ran a latitude line north of the island and waited for the radio beacon on the island to bear due south and ran the RDF line in to the island.
Thats real old school!
14 years ago, we did the opposite, staying well South of the rhumb line via celestial & DR until the depth sounder showed we were passing over the sea mount to the South, and then headed North.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:44 PM
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Smile A few have dead reckoned Bermuda.

Joe,

A few have dead reckoned Bermuda...some not by choice.

My friend Fred Rhese and his wife Ricki were sailing from Halifax to Bermuda on an Alberg 37. Fred is a retired Canadian SAR pilot (He was a legend in his own time in a Boeing CH113- Labrador Helicopter) and his wife was a retired nurse (sadly Ricki passed suddenly last July).

They had spent over a day in a ferocious storm that blew up and they took turns in the cockpit. Having rode out the worst of the storm and feeling pretty comfortable Ricki said: come in Fred and have a hot toddie. Fred put the boat on auto and went inside. The winds were still up and Fred put the doors in as he entered the cabin.

As told by Fred: "I was just putting the drink to my lips and the boat went over...pitch poled (I had initially thought they turtled but speaking to Fred about it this spring he said "Bob got knocked down twice in Tropical Storm Alberto...we pitch poled"). Water came in through the vents like a fire hose and we were flung around like rag dolls"..."while trying to recover myself the boat righted herself and I scramble out to see what was going on. We had been hit by a rouge wave ... we weren't hurt, the boat was intact, not even a sail torn...all the electronics were out of action due to water that came through the vents and ruined...and I never got the drink for hours".

Fred dead reckoned to Bermuda (about 300 miles from a good guess on his position) and nailed it bang on from there. They spent some time there as new electronics were flown in and installed. They carried on the the Caribbean were they spent 6 years sailing from port to port. I have other friends that had to be airlifted off their 48 footer. Dad's Dream was on her way back from the BVI to Nova Scotia when Tropical Storm Alberto changed expected course and knocked the 48 footer down twice. His wife was cut pretty good, broke an arm and a vertebrae...Bob was going to stay with the boat and she wouldn't go unless he did. US Coast Guard Helicopter got out there, airlifted them to Yarmouth NS hospital...so here's a link to that:
http://renegade-cruisers.net/bb/view...php?f=2&t=5799 I was on the news over that one. People were saying "inexperienced sailor" etc etc and I set the record straight on that one...only been sailing a lifetime and got knocked down by 60 foot waves ffs.

By the way, Dad's Dream was the one we saved from going on the rocks last year after her mooring pennant broke during a storm...I've actually driven her, and Bob is a good friend as well.
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"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 06-14-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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