Carburetor advice

[snowyegret]

I belong to the Atomic 4 digest and the folks there suggested I post here and see if someone here can help me out. My 1963 Defender with the original Atomic 4 wasn't getting gas like it should so I took it to the local marine repair facility here on the Olympic Peninsula, WA. The motor was still running just not getting gas very well. It would start up just fine and I’d motor out of the marina but after running for 20 minutes or so it would slowly get less and less gas. The repair facility said it was the carburetor and gave me an estimate of 400,00 to repair it. Their "mechanic" claimed he tried to rebuild it but couldn't get it to work, charged me 700.00 to give me back a boat with no carburetor and claimed it would be another 400.00 to get me a new carburetor installed. He told me "you can afford another 400.00 on top of the 700.00, what are you a doctor or a lawyer or something?" I was flabbergasted at that and said, “NO, I'm not, I’m a janitor who has dreamed of owning this sailboat for literally decades and scrimped every spare penny I could to save up for this boat.” I don't know what that mechanic did to it. I got the old carburetor back but I don't know anything about them. I don't know if he even tried to rebuild it. Now, I’m stuck with a motor that doesn’t run at all and I had to pay them or they would take my boat. I don’t know if I need a new carburetor or if the one I have can be rebuilt. I know I can’t afford the 300.00 (245.00 for the carburetor on Moyer plus core fee plus shipping) for a new carburetor plus paying someone to install it. I found Marlinspike Atomic 4 Carb Rebuild page online but I’m not sure I can do that. I’m NOT repair a motor inclined. Anything else on the sailboat I can handle. Does anyone know what to advise me to do? I didn’t get to take my sailboat out at all this year. I miss it so much.

Thanks for your help
Pamela

[Dave Neptune]

Ouch and other KRAP!

Pamela, welcome to the forum. I totally enjoyed your story of how and why you aquired yout boat.
I think you should spend the "Dr bucks" to have the mechanics but kicked around. If you wanted to send me the carb I would inspect it to see if he did anything at all to it. It sounds as if you have a fuel delivery problem not necessarily the carb and he took advantage of you, not corinthian at all.
I suggest that since you are on a budget and seem capable that you do the work yourself and enlist any help you can muster by supplying liguid bread (beer) for some worker bees.
My first suggestion is to check fuel preassure at the carb. This can be done with the cheapist gage you can find perhaps even a used one. plumb it inline just in front of the carb and after the polishing filter if so equipped.
We will need a bit more info about your fuel system IE filters, age of fuel and type of pump~mechanical (stock) or an electric aftermarket one.
These are very simple engines and it is usually a simple fix or a combination of a couple.
There are more than one women mechanics using this forum and we're all in this together.

Dave Neptune

[sailbristol]

carb

welcome to the forum the carb rebuild is not rocket science you can do it get the Moyer manual and follow the instructions if you cant do it take the carb over to port Townsend the marina there has lots of capable people who would be glad to help you and not charge you $400 for 45min work , I can do mine in about 20min its not hard

[snowyegret]

"I think you should spend the "Dr bucks" to have the mechanics butt kicked around."

Believe me, I would if I could afford it.

"If you wanted to send me the carb I would inspect it to see if he did anything at all to it."

Where are you?

"It sounds as if you have a fuel delivery problem not necessarily the carb"

I understand that.

"and he took advantage of you"

I definitely know about that.

"enlist any help you can muster by supplying liguid bread (beer) for some worker bees."

I'm all for liquid bread!

"My first suggestion is to check fuel preassure at the carb."

You lost me.

"This can be done with the cheapist gage you can find"

Gauge?

"plumb it inline just in front of the carb and after the polishing filter if so equipped."

Huh?

"We will need a bit more info about your fuel system IE filters, age of fuel and type of pump~mechanical (stock) or an electric aftermarket one."

I couldn't tell you if my life depended on it.

"These are very simple engines and it is usually a simple fix or a combination of a couple."

It's going to have to be more than simple if I try this. A blind moron is going to have to be able to do this.

"There are more than one women mechanics using this forum and we're all in this together."

Are any of these women (or men) on the Olympic Peninsula?

[Mo]

Well OUCH

Wish I lived close or I'd sort that out for ya....the mechanic sounds like he needs a nap too.

Any way, Dave Neptune is a good fuel system guy, as are many on here. The fuel pressure guage he is asking for is a good start. The problem may not be the carb but and air leak in a line, filter seal or pick up tube.

My thinking is that if it runs well for 20 minutes ... then fails....a good description of what it sounds like when it dies out would help too.

---points and condenser or electronic ignition? Do you know which you have.

[snowyegret]

Well OUCH

Wish I lived close or I'd sort that out for ya....the mechanic sounds like he needs a nap too.

Any way, Dave Neptune is a good fuel system guy, as are many on here. The fuel pressure guage he is asking for is a good start. The problem may not be the carb but and air leak in a line, filter seal or pick up tube.

My thinking is that if it runs well for 20 minutes ... then fails....a good description of what it sounds like when it dies out would help too.

---points and condenser or electronic ignition? Do you know which you have.

I'm pretty sure I have points not electronic ignition. It would just keep running slower and slower then just peter out. Didn't matter how much gas I was giving it.

Jeez I wish I didn't live so far out here.

[Dave Neptune]

Smile

Pam, can you take a few pics of the engine~top and both sides? With a few pics we may be able to figure out what you have.

How is your access to the engine? Pics will help here too.

As per Mo's coments~~when it died did it just quit or sort of stumble and come to a stop? Mo is I think ah thinkin' you may have an ignition problem which this answer could influence.

I'm in the LA area, but first lets hold for a bit as someone local may offer a hands on assistance for a beer. You will find that the Afourian community is quite good and most helpfull.

Dave Neptune

[Dave Neptune]

Smile pt II

Pam, I was writing when you posted your last. What you described as to how it was shutting down convinces me it is fuel related and most likely delivery at that.
Ready to learn a few plumbing and mechanical skills? If so you will WOW those who will admire your boat maintenance abilities.
Also if you are serious about learning the A-4 there is much on line regarding maintenance stuff and there is always the MMI manual. Take it one step at a time and you just may suprise yourself with your own determination.
Look around this site for related issues in the fuel and carb sections on this forum, they may help you to understand easier.

Dave Neptune

[dvd]

I know you don't think you can afford it but the new Moyer carb for $245 bucks it is a great way to go. I installed mine myself with no problems. What I think your problem is is your fuel filter(s). If it runs for a while and then start to wind down like running out of gas I would say your fuel filter(s) are clogged. This is an easy fix, however, then you must find out why the filters are clogged. This could be crud in your tank or the filters just needed to be replaced.

Also, we love photos why dont you post a few photos of your engine, filters, etc. for us to view.

Welcome to the forum. We'll get you going in no time.

dvd

[snowyegret]

pics

I will go down the marina tomorrow and take all the pictures I can get and put them online tomorrow. Someone mentioned ignition problem. I had the same problem just last month with my Pontiac Fiero. It would just peter out and die for no reason. For a while, it would start back up and run and then one day it petered out going down the road and died and wouldn't start anymore. It turned out to be the ignition module.

Will post pics tomorrow.

[dvd]

Does anyone think snows problem could be a bad coil??

[sastanley]

dvd...maybe the boat and the Fiero.

Pam, hang in there. We'll turn you into a mechanic yet.

Take a million pictures...after you post a couple on the forum, we'll ask for a few more..those 'extra' ones you took will then be useful for us to help identify things & move forward with suggestions from there.

I didn't know anything about the A4 motor in 2008. I feel pretty confident with it now (you wouldn't know it reading my posts, but I've always gotten the boat back to her slip under her own power.)

If you don't own it already (i.e., it came with the boat), I would save $50 to get the Moyer Marine A4 manual. It is worth every penny..& it is amazing how much you can absorb reading it just sitting in the boat while staring at your engine.

One other tip...whenever you order parts from Moyer, unlike other websites, call the parts line directly instead of ordering online..Ken is a great guy and the one on one service, even via telephone, is unparalleled here.

OK - I am full of tips today...do not give that mechanic guy another dime. "Thanks, I have other resources, so I am looking to them for help."

I bet within a couple weeks, we'll have you taking pictures of the carb you cracked open yourself on your dining room table/work bench!

[Mo]

hmmm

Does anyone think snows problem could be a bad coil??

DVD,
Crossed my mind...so did a condenser. However, sounds fuel starved by her description....I think once she has confirmed fuel delivery it might be worth a look.

[Esgbradford]

Pamela,

Welcome to the forum.

If the mechanic charged you $700 for work that he quoted you $400 for, then you are only obligated for $400 -- if he did the work. He should have given an itemized invoice... make sure you actually got what you paid for. You have the right to complain if you think his billing practice was dishonest. There is the Better Business Bureau and Angie's List -- both are worth sending your comments to them. Remember, if he was dishonest (which is sounds like he was), then it is a favor to some other consumer which you report the experience.

As for things to try. I have heard of situations like you describe happening when the vent to the gas tank is clogged. To check for this, just loosen the fill tube a little while idling, and see if that cures the issue. Changing the filter is a good call. Cleaning out the fuel pump is easy to do (can be messy).

There are some safety issues when working with gasoline in a boat. Make sure you are aware of them and follow the recommended procedures.

Eric
Aries Newport 27
Portland, OR

[snowyegret]

He gave me an itemized list. On it were things like charging me 2 hours to "find a new carburetor" I called him a lying sack of sh%t on that one. I didn't even know about Moyer Marine at that time and it took me, a nobody, 10 minutes to find the right carburetor at Moyer Marine. I think I will post something on the BBB and Angies List about them. Will get the pics online tomorrow.