#26
IP: 68.104.86.117
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Quote:
8AWG from the Alt to the Starter post. 8AWG from the Starter to the Isolator Switch. 4AWG from the Isolator to the Batteries Short runs all of them. EDIT: I looked at the wiring and the Starter to Isolator/Battery Bank is actually a 4AWG wire. (Not 8AWG)
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-Jerry 'Lone Ranger' 1978 RANGER 30 Last edited by roadnsky; 08-06-2010 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Looked at the wiring and it's different than I originally posted |
#27
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Voltage drop is a function of wire cross sectional area (in terms of resistance per unit length), wire length and current.
As the current increases, so does the voltage drop. Without excessive length, as long as the current doesn't exceed the wire gauge's rated ampacity the voltage drop is usually insignificant. Beyond the rated ampacity however, things start to get serious. Depending on where Jerry's regulator senses battery voltage, the regulator may make up the difference. The 8 gauge wire from the starter to the isloator switch caught my attention, not so much for charging but for starting. I've never measured it but does anyone know the normal amperage the starter draws? My former Perkins diesel starter could draw some serious amps, like in the neighborhood of 200 - 250 as I recall, maybe more. My battery cables were 4/0 just to address the starting loads. Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting the A4 starter is anywhere near the Perkins in terms of starting loads.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#28
IP: 138.88.67.34
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you guys don't want to know what I am running (it was the biggest piece of wire I had on the boat when I eliminated the ammeter run to the cockpit in the middle of cruising.)
I think mine is 10 or 12 gauge..the run is short now though, about 24" from alternator to isolator, and then 4 awg from isolator to batteries..probably 12" & 16" runs respectively. This setup is not permanent...it is only the beginning. I still have a random 14 gauge wire running thru the bilge that must be connected to ground on the house battery to make any of my 12 v systems work. I am guessing the "real" ground failed long ago.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 08-02-2010 at 10:19 PM. |
#29
IP: 142.68.253.24
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Quote:
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1974 C&C 27 Last edited by rigspelt; 08-03-2010 at 06:36 AM. |
#30
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Quote:
There are a few who have installed an alternator with a maximum capacity that seems beyond reason, yours truly being one of them. Replacement of the alternator output wire to a larger gauge is necessary in these upgrades. My original output wire for the Motorola 35A was #10. With my Delco 100A alternator the output wire is now #4.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 08-03-2010 at 07:27 AM. |
#31
IP: 142.68.253.24
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Just to clarify, we run the 55 amp API, which I am hoping I can somehow adapt to run with an adjustable external regulator.
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1974 C&C 27 |
#32
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Sorry, worded my post awkwardly. 'Yours truly' meant me, not that your alternator was truly unreasonable. I had no idea what size your alternator was.
I'm the nut with the 100 amp alternator.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#33
IP: 206.125.176.3
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Mmmm.... cold beer! - Neil, are you really up and thinking about this stuff at 5:00 AM local time? You and rigs are freaks of nature!
I will comment that the output wire on my 35A alternator is the same gauge as the orange wire that was originally in the charge circuit on the C-30, which as you well know, runs from the engine compartment to the ammeter in the cockpit and back, probably originally to the starter post. Once the isolator was added (who knows when?), the PO ran a (looks like 10 gauge also) from the ammeter directly to the isolator (+) post, which is back in the engine compartment, so the run was still just as long. I decided to eliminate the long 10# wire (& ammeter) for now, figuring that even though not ideal, the 10# run from the alternator directly to the isolator (+) post couldn't be any worse than the same gauge wire running all the way to the ammeter and back, as it had for xx years. Incidentally, the black wire running to ground and the (+) from the ammeter were exactly the same color and gauge & ran next to each other in the bilge. Getting anything to work on this boat & tracing P.O. nonsense while I contemplate the re-wire has been a challenge!
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 08-03-2010 at 08:37 AM. Reason: do you people ever sleep? |
#34
IP: 24.152.131.220
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That's right, ice cold beer, brain freeze cold.
For the record, members of dis here forum who visit are entitled to my private stash of imports. We'll leave the domestic swill for the common riff raff. My current preference is Pacifico Clara. Actually, when visiting others and asked what my favorite beer is I reply with my 2 favorites: cold and free.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#35
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Quote:
Any alternator you use should be ignition protected. It's my understanding that automotive alternators are not. The attached pic of my 100A Delco shows the spark arresting screen.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 08-03-2010 at 08:58 AM. |
#36
IP: 173.166.26.241
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Neil - Regarding your question about starter draw (post#27), mine shows 130amps using #2 cable. Also for the record I use #4 cable for alternator output, both positive and negative (110 amp Balmar model 712). I am relieved to learn of your splendid policy regarding beer discrimination.
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#37
IP: 206.125.176.3
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Bud Select 55 is currently $9.99 for an 18-pack here locally. That is only $1 more than the wretched Natural Light & Busch Light which I cannot drink.
I get my fill of imports when I go to the local mexican restaurant and drink the Dos Equis Negro (sp?) on tap in the 34 oz. mug!
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#38
IP: 199.173.226.236
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Some comments:
Trying to charge batteries with a fixed voltage regulator is like trying to fill water balloons with a fixed water pressure. If you open the valve too far they will pop and if you open it only enough to not pop them they will take forever to fill. That said, my experience with adapting modern regulators to the 55 amp Motorola is that the alternator gets driven way harder than it would be by the internal regulator and needs a diode or two replaced every 2 or 3 years. I think I need one now - the max charging current seems to have dropped a bit |
#39
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Shawn,
One of the great finds when building my Westsail in the 80's was cases of Meister Brau at the local Smart & Final for 12 bucks. There was a $10 rebate coupon inside, net cost was $2 for a case not counting recycle value of the aluminum cans. Man, are we off topic or what??
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 08-05-2010 at 07:18 AM. |
#40
IP: 199.173.226.236
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Is this the alternator you have?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-1...Q5fAccessories Did it fit the A4 mounts? Are you still using the internal regulator it came with? |
#41
IP: 64.203.32.52
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Alternator?
Niel, thanx for the heads up on the protection. Isn't the protection in the regulator that is chosen? I don't see any of the "spark" protection on the stock unit(?) and wonder what's up with it?
Ah swilling Beer I have a deffinate preferance but when offered a beer all I require is "wet and cold". Not to fussy unless the GUD stuff is available. Save the "Ales"! Dave Neptune |
#42
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Quote:
To answer your question directly, mine is internally regulated, single wire connection (output to starter post). Be careful with the connection at the output post, the spark shield is really close there and grounded.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#43
IP: 142.68.253.24
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Heh-heh - good company to be included within!
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1974 C&C 27 |
#44
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Yeah, often it's just me and rigs at that hour, sometimes Kelly - from France!
Quote:
This pdf explains it better than I ever could. Note that the alternators available from Moyer are all SAE J-1171 compliant.
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 08-03-2010 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Repaired dead pdf link |
#45
IP: 68.104.86.117
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Quote:
but is it because you guys are up early OR just still up LATE?!
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-Jerry 'Lone Ranger' 1978 RANGER 30 |
#46
IP: 206.125.176.3
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did we ever answer Art's question?
Art,
Sorry we've gotten so off topic..did you get an answer to your initial inquiry? I was snapping some pics yesterday and remembered I had a pic from 2009 of my Motorola alternator before I put on the aftermarket regulator. the pigtail (yellow) is the exciter and heads off to the (+) on the coil. the large black is alt. output to the charging circuit. Mine heads off to an isolator, but a common wiring set up is back to the starter as well.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#47
IP: 71.181.37.53
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Thanks Shawn for the information.
I managed to locate in previously, but your picture is great. Thanks Art |
#48
IP: 71.118.13.238
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Alterantor
Niel, thanx for the pdf!
Where do you keep your boat? Do you ever get to Catalina? Thanx Dave Neptune |
#49
IP: 24.152.131.220
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Dave,
I love it over at Catalina, particularly Isthmus Cove but alas, demands of work and family make those weekends all too rare. Hope to get over there later this month and I'll give you a holler before I do, would love to connect w/ you over there. My slip is in Cabrillo, a little toward the outer harbor from 22nd Street Landing and in front of the Doubletree Hotel. That's 19.3 NM from the Isthmus! For all youse non-West Coasties, I'm sure Dave will agree there's nothing like BBQ'n steaks in the cockpit as the sun sets behind the island after a 4 hour passage. edit: OK, moved this business over to the Local Knowledge topic
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Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others Last edited by ndutton; 08-04-2010 at 11:15 AM. |
#50
IP: 64.203.32.52
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West End
Niel, I was actually the second boat in the new Cabrillo Marina when it opened and was there just over two months rent free, but that's another story.
I have a mooring in Emerald Bay and am a member of the Corsair YC, actually this year I'm the Commodore. I have four more trips planned for this season with the club. I will be in the Istmus next wednesday to drink some free booze at the Reef, the SCICo is buying for the Corsairs to celebrate our new lease. Then I'll be in Emerald for the next week. Hope I don't miss Shawn's reports on the "Indigo" thread that starts out blaming me~~ouch. Thanx for the info you provide. It is amazing how much "other" knowledge is gleened from this site and our precious lil beasties the A-4. I might see/meet Hatch this weekend as the SS boat he is crewing will be racing just up the channel from my slip in Alimitos Bay~cool. See ya soon maybe. Dave Neptune |
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