Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Overhaul

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 01-05-2011, 03:09 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Hoisting the engine

In just a couple days, the boat will be hauled and blocked for some pre-Spring maintenance, repairs and mods. While it's on the hard, I'm going to pull the A4 out and take it home so I can work on it on a bench. I'm going to do an overhaul, but haven't yet completely decided how far I'll go. I'm thinking I'll probably end up going pretty far, actually.

Anyhow, I've seen the pics and read the tips about using the boom to lift it out and swing it down to the ground, but for some reason that makes me feel a bit hinky. The guy at the boatyard, of course, cautioned against it - he's had a couple people drop their engines in the cockpit when trying these clever tricks. He's got a yard crane and will gladly assist me in hoisting the engine out - and I was surprised at how expensive it would be, particularly in light of how reasonable I thought his other fees (hauling, pressure-washing, blocking, etc.) were.

So - is it really no big deal to haul the engine with the boom? Am I being too much of a worry-wart? I know the engine weighs about 350 lbs., so it's not a huge amount - but does using the boom to hoist it place unusual strains on the boom, mast, shrouds, etc.? I can just see a shroud going "POING!" and the mast starting to come down right as I'm swinging it over the side and trying to lower it into my truck bed. But I'm also interested in not having spend a couple hundred bucks for the yard crane service if I don't have to.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 71.168.64.77
Old 01-05-2011, 04:03 PM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,804
Thanks: 14
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You should peruse the recent thread entitled "rebuild step 1" in which
a forum member uses the main halyard as primary lift and the main sheet
as a guide.

Regards

Art
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 69.95.136.2
Old 01-05-2011, 04:49 PM
Laker Laker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sheboygan wis.
Posts: 454
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Just think of the load that your rig experinces when you are reaching in 20 kts , a wave gets under the stern , you round up - at which time the apparent wind suddenly increases by at least 50% and - BAM - you get knocked down , then the righting moment lifts the mast from near horizontal. I think that a well planned , relatively static load of 350# should be easy on the rig by comparison. It probably would not be a bad idea to rig a back up , or preventor , to the main halyard just for peace of mind. Spin halyard ,maybe?

Also , you could take off some heavy components first , like the alternator and starter.
Your call , Laker.
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 01-05-2011, 04:52 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,637
Thanks: 593
Thanked 338 Times in 263 Posts
Thumbs up

+1 on what Art said.

Bill, a lot of it depends on how you rig it. There are some people that have no idea about the loads imparted on a sailboat (or any other mechanical device for that matter)..I sometimes wonder how they get thru a normal day without major injury to themselves or others!



It is possible your yard buddy's other experiences have been with folks like that, and have never thought about things like hanging a 310 lbs. engine from the middle of a boom, etc. - that is the first hurdle...if you think it might be OK to hang #300 from the middle of a round tube and expect it not to buckle, you might be one of those people that should pay the crane fee. If you understand that it won't work, you can use your skills and the experience of others to rig something that is safe and strong. (edit - to expound on Laker's comment..he's exactly right..be moving the loads to the correct spots of the rig, it will easily handle them. The boom in compression is extremely strong and handles 1000's of pounds of load from the mainsail..but it may not handle 300 lbs. of unsupported weight hanging from the middle swung out over the boat.) I try to take this approach with lots of boat stuff. There are more than 6000 Catalina 30's like mine...I do not need to re-invent the wheel with most of my projects..someone else has likely already done it. (successfully & unsuccessfully. With such quantity, I get the advantage of learning from both!)

Some people have catastrophic failures go on around them all the time and end up paying someone to fix their problems. Others do a little (or a lot) of research and do something like hauling their engine from their boat successfully while the 'gear buster guy' stands in the boat yard and says, "I had to pay Joe Yardguy $100/hour to run his crane for me after I dropped my engine thru the cockpit" - you are already 1 step ahead by asking the questions before you start!

- Ok, rant over! Let's start engineering an engine hoist!
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is even happier with fresh paint on the topsides!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 01-05-2011 at 05:02 PM. Reason: comment on laker's post
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 01-05-2011, 08:20 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,678
Thanks: 151
Thanked 1,283 Times in 863 Posts
Bill,

Before committing to lifting the engine yourself, you might want to shop around for local light crane services like the guys that lift air conditioning equipment onto roofs or maybe sign contractors.

I sometimes use a crane service in my business and feel their minimum is quite reasonable at $200, been using them for 30 years. At least you'll have a price to compare with the yard.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 01-05-2011, 08:48 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
I am so totally not committed to hoisting it myself. In fact, I am leaning towards having them do it, just to keep it simple. Not only have they done it a couple hundred times, but then the liability is on them if they drop it.

They charge a $200 flat fee for the crane, plus $75/hr labor for the operator, so hoisting it out would probably be about $250, and the same again for putting it back in. I figure for $500 round trip, to get it done quickly, professionally, and most importantly - safely - balanced against my time, effort and angst, probably is worth it, it the grand scheme of things.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 01-05-2011, 08:58 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,678
Thanks: 151
Thanked 1,283 Times in 863 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeRust View Post
I figure for $500 round trip, to get it done quickly, professionally, and most importantly - safely - balanced against my time, effort and angst, probably is worth it, it the grand scheme of things.
Bill,

I soooo agree with your reasoning. Sometimes just because we can do something doesn't mean it's always the best approach. Park your truck next to the boat, plop the engine right in there in a single operation.

I'd still shop around to keep them honest.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 142.68.252.135
Old 01-06-2011, 08:09 AM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeRust View Post
I am so totally not committed to hoisting it myself. In fact, I am leaning towards having them do it, just to keep it simple. Not only have they done it a couple hundred times, but then the liability is on them if they drop it. They charge a $200 flat fee for the crane, plus $75/hr labor for the operator, so hoisting it out would probably be about $250, and the same again for putting it back in. I figure for $500 round trip, to get it done quickly, professionally, and most importantly - safely - balanced against my time, effort and angst, probably is worth it, it the grand scheme of things.
Very sensible. There are some very clever, thoughtful DIY homebuilt solutions for hauling/installing a boat engine, but a light crane handled by a boat yard specialist is by far the simplest, safest and fastest solution for this particular job. Given the overall costs of an engine overhaul/refit, $500 is not outrageous for the peace of mind. I'd rather spend time and mental energy planning the bench refit than days planning the engine removal, along with the cost of buying lumber and a block and tackle I might never use again to build a rickety lift that might work OK or strain a ligament or three.
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.127.192.65
Old 01-11-2011, 11:47 AM
diver53207 diver53207 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I recently pulled my A4 from my 27' O'Day and was also very worried about concentrating the load in such a small spot on the boom. I used the nylon coated braided steel wire that would be similar to that used in a bicycle locking cable and attached eyes to both ends. I wrapped this around my boom and then attached the main halyard directly to the windings around the boom. ( it was wrapped three times) I attached a come-a-long to eyes and to the A4. This put almost all the weight on the halyard and not on the boom. Makes sure you buy a come-a-long long enough for your needs. As once I tied off the halyard I did not move it for an up/down adjustment only a side to side. Hope it helps!
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 216.115.121.253
Old 01-11-2011, 01:13 PM
lat 64's Avatar
lat 64 lat 64 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 1,902
Thanks: 30
Thanked 169 Times in 114 Posts
Bill,
Cool, just let me know how much. Get a dependable replacement first for sure.
64n147watsymbolgmaildottkom

On my little ship I have installed:
one new small Rule bilge pump(automatic),
one old "overhauled" PAR pump(automatic),
and a big bucket.

To be installed:
one Whale hand pump,
an extra pick up hose with; ball valve teed to raw-water intake, and screened foot,
maybe Bill's old pump,
and another big bucket.

The first rule of boating; keep the water out.

Russ

Oh, and let's not forget the shower sump pump (not installed yet)
__________________
Whiskeyjack a '68 Columbia 36 rebuilt A-4 with 2:1

"Since when is napping doing nothing?"

Last edited by lat 64; 01-11-2011 at 01:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 76.7.147.23
Old 01-11-2011, 01:42 PM
Marian Claire's Avatar
Marian Claire Marian Claire is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 22
Thanked 94 Times in 68 Posts
I smell another poll. What kind of de-watering devices do you have and do you know they work? Dan S/V Marian Claire
And welcome Diver
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 96.54.83.22
Old 03-12-2011, 12:26 AM
ElmaBay's Avatar
ElmaBay ElmaBay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Miracle Beach - Vancouver Island - BC - Canada
Posts: 21
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A little help from a friend...

I removed my A4 this past season, rebuilt most of it and returned it to new engine mounts all without incident, but I did not use the boom. That engine is heavy and ackward. I lifted the engine off the mounts by putting a steel beam across the companionway and using a small engine hoist rig. Once clear of the engine mounts and most of the way up to the companionway, I connected the engine to a Hiab truck that was able to reach out across the marina (roughtly 25 to 35 feet) and lift the engine out the rest of the way. With the use of the hoist I was able to control the movement of the engine through the companionway and not do any damage. The Hiab opereator was not able to see the engine until almost through the companionway. It was at this upper position that we hooked up the Hiab and used it to remove the engine totally from the boat. Entire operation took less than 20 minutes. I was very relieved to see the engine clear the boat and then make it's way across the marina in the air onto dry land. I imagine those things would make quite the splash. I looked as using the boom, but deicided against it. Too much at risk. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 03-13-2011, 08:16 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Made a little more progress today.

First I shot some paint on a few of the primed parts. I guess it's the bright sunshine, or just my cheap digicam, but it looks much more orange in the pics than it really is. It's Ford Red, and is much more red than it looks here. But you get the idea.







It's going to be a sweet-looking engine when done! Hopefully it will be as sweet-running, too...
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 03-13-2011, 08:22 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
While that was drying, I went to work on the rusty, greasy, cruddy manifold. I wish I had gotten a good "before" pic, because it wasn't pretty.

I went at it with the angle grinder and the twisted strand wire wheel, which made huge strides.

I then installed the little drain plug and filled the water jacket with muriatic acid.

A leetle bubblin' going on:



About 15-20 minutes later:



I flushed out some flakes of rust and chunks and some crud. Seems pretty clean inside now.

Then a final once-over with a wire wheel and a wipe-down with solvent to prep for priming left it nice and clean:

__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 03-13-2011, 08:23 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Masked and ready for priming:



And the first shot of primer:



I stood it on end, because that was the best way to be able to paint all sides.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 74.110.198.83
Old 03-13-2011, 08:32 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Water Pump Woes

And now - some questions about the water pump:

First: here it is.





I believe this is a MMI replacement pump. The previous owner of the boat told me had either rebuilt or replaced the pump (I don't recall which) about 2 years ago. Overall it's in good condition.

BUT!

The shaft now is seized. I'm guessing it's because it's been sitting and got a little rusty or something. But it will not turn at all.

Question: in explaining how to take the water pump apart, the Moyer Manual says remove the grease cup (I note that this pump does not have one) and then later it says to remove the impeller and shaft.

It does not give any detail on how to remove the shaft.

Does it come out this side:



Or this side:



??

In any event, mine's not coming out either side - that sucker is stuck, stuck, stuck and won't budge in any direction.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 97.92.210.145
Old 03-13-2011, 08:39 PM
13jeff13's Avatar
13jeff13 13jeff13 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 302
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow

Very Nice,,, I'm following in your foot steps,, Looking Great,, My block goes to the machine shop tomorrow.

Did you replace your freeze plugs or leave them in?


LOOKING GREAT!!!!!!!

EDIT: I'm going with them MMI 502... on the pump.
__________________
With Powerboats, it's about the destination. With Sailboats, you are already there.

Jeff

S/V Karinya
1973 Grampian 30', Full Keel, A4 aux.

Last edited by 13jeff13; 03-13-2011 at 08:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 68.126.199.192
Old 09-06-2011, 02:19 AM
domenic's Avatar
domenic domenic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 467
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Good luck with your rebuilt A4.

Last edited by domenic; 09-06-2011 at 12:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 09-06-2011, 09:40 AM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Um...

I had the engine hoisted out by the boatyard, using their crane, back in January or February, and just had them hoist it back in a few weeks ago after I spent several months doing the total overhaul.

Using the boom to hoist it is pretty much a moot point now.

Now I'm on to hooking everything back up to the engine and getting her back in the water. And then finishing the new cabin sole, and doing all the sanding, painting and varnishing below, and replacing the decayed wood on the deck, and...
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 96.228.21.70
Old 09-11-2011, 09:29 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
The latest pics, taken just today -

Test-fitting the new bulkhead:



Looks WAY, WAY better than the crappy old one.

And this gives an idea of the kind of access/workability I'll have once it's in place - still not bad, really:



...except getting at the exhaust and rear of the engine is a pain...

Inching closer to getting her running!
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 24.152.131.220
Old 09-11-2011, 09:40 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,678
Thanks: 151
Thanked 1,283 Times in 863 Posts
Of course you know that since you've done such a beautiful job on the bulkhead, everything else you do has to be as good or better. It's how these projects take on a personality all their own.

reference: my Westsail pics, been there - done that
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 174.65.54.224
Old 09-11-2011, 10:03 PM
jpian0923's Avatar
jpian0923 jpian0923 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 960
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
It's easily removable, right?

Looks good.
__________________
"Jim"
S/V "Ahoi"
1967 Islander 29
Harbor Island, San Diego
2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date
Reply With Quote
  #23   IP: 96.228.21.70
Old 09-11-2011, 10:12 PM
ILikeRust's Avatar
ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Henrico, VA
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanks - I do plan on holding myself to a certain standard, which in general is set at a level better than what currently is there.

Got a fair amount done today.

I put on the Indigo prop, just to have it done. I'll have to remember spray the prop and shaft with the Petit zinc coating. I bought a can a while back just for that purpose. Gotta find it again. So much stuff everywhere in the cabin; it's a real mess.

Installed the anti-siphon valve kit and the alarm for the water temp/oil pressure alarm kit.

Took out the old water temp gauge - I'm betting it was original - it was rotted out so bad it almost broke in half when I pulled it out. Also pulled out the old engine hours meter. I see no reason to have that up in the cockpit, so I'll probably fill in that hole and install the brand new engine hours meter (from Moyer) down below somewhere.

Continued to figure out the best configuration for the raw water intake. Hooked up a T fitting so I can attach a hose and run the engine on the hard, using the hose as the raw water intake - or to flush the system or to winterize, or whatever.

Found - and removed - more random wiring. I think I'll end up removing more wires than will remain. Lots of abandoned stuff in there. I guess the previous owner didn't care that there were all these extra wires just hanging around in the boat. I do.

Discovered I bought wrong size fuel hose to connect the pump to the carb and install the in-line fuel filter. I need 5/16" - I bought 3/8" because that's what had been on there (which makes me wonder about that... it's clearly not the right size - he musta really just cranked down on the clamps). So one more thing to be done next weekend.

So a little bit o' this, a little bit o' that - all things that need to get done before she goes back in the water.

Next weekend I'll go up again and focus on wiring. Hopefully I'll get it to the point where I can actually try to fire her up!

I'm actually considering heading up there on Saturday night and sleeping over on the boat - so I can get going early, first thing, before it gets hot, and get as much progress out of the day as possible before heading home. There are several people staying on their boats in the yard, while working on them. It's almost like a strange campground.
__________________
- Bill T.
- Richmond, VA

Relentless pursuer of lost causes
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Short? Or bad component preventing engine from shutting off? ILikeRust Troubleshooting 23 10-25-2010 09:52 AM
Engine Sputters and Coughs, and Needed Choke to Run Smooth CaptainChas Troubleshooting 9 06-30-2009 11:50 PM
Engine Dies after approx one hour Trysail Troubleshooting 4 08-07-2008 12:15 PM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer General Interest 13 06-27-2008 12:06 PM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer Ranger 7 12-12-2005 01:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universalģ is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2019 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved