Engine will not start

[Dali007]

Hi all,

I hope that some of the atomic4neers can shed some light on the existing conundrum…

Here it is the etymology: We were motoring from Wilson, NY to Niagara-On-The-Lake, ON in a quite morning, no wind available (on our 1980 Catalina 30'). The engine was running smoothly for about 2 hours when a hat went flying, so we decided to do a MOB drill and went back to try to find it, to no avail. As we were in idle, the engine suddenly stopped, we could not get it started after many attempts. We decided to try to sail and wait for the engine to cool down. After about 45 minutes of sailing, we tried to start the engine and it DID start. We hurried to a slip at NOTL, and the engine stopped right after putting it on reverse at the slip, thank God for that.

We tried to start the engine after it completely cooled off a couple of days later. We have not been able to start it. The engine turns but does not start.

It was determined that the pump was not working after running power straight from the battery. We proceeded to replace the automobile electric pump with a FACET marine pump – it did nothing…

Below I have listed all the items that we have looked at in the last 3 weeks and other relevant factors:

Replaced electric fuel pump (Facet) – by passed the oil safety switch for now – we can hear pump is working now
1 year old starting battery, fully charged
Changed distributor cap and rotor
Changed sparks plugs and wires, checked for sparks
Changed fuel lines
Cleaned fuel water separator and replaced filter
Cleaned carburetor and inspected – seems fine
Checked for ignition spark
Checked for water in the fuel tank

Last night, we by-passed the fuel tank and primed a hose into a jerry can filled with new gas, still nada, zero.

We are at the end of the rope with theories,….can someone light the rest of the way?

Thanks so much!

Dali, Dave, Richard, Matt, Eric, Gary

[JOHN COOKSON]

Compression Fuel Spark

All delivered to the cylinders.
A quick and easy compression check is to seal a spark plug hole with thumb pressure while turning the engine over and see if there is enough compression to force your thumb away.
You may have a valve(s) hanging open.
Welcome to the forum.

TRUE GRIT

[Dave Neptune]

Be sure

Have you rechecked the spark while cranking? I sorta tend to lead to a coil as it restarted when first cooled. Be sure you are seeing a good crisp spark, a quarter of an inch is excellent.

Also be sure and check the voltage at the coil, this will insure the ignition connections are good! Neil has an excellent photo of a common connector to the A-4 in general.

Check your choke too. Look at it and make sure it does close and fully open. The choke is very important to an engine carbureted as the A-4.

Welcome to the forum.

Dave Neptune

[Clucas]

When you changed the distributor cap and rotor, did you remove the distributor? Did you replace the rotor in exactly the same orientation as it was when you had a running engine?

Double check firing order: 1-2-4-3. Are your spark plug wires connected to the distributor cap in the proper order? Double-check coil and coil connections.

After cranking the engine, remove the spark arrestor -- any fuel puddled in he throat of the carb? If bone dry, you could have clogged jet(s) in the carb. Have you tried draining the main passage in the carb?

When the engine was running, did you have water discharging out the exhaust? What was your operating temp?

Very important! While attempting to start the engine, be sure your RW valve is closed so you don't end up with water in the cylinders.

[Dali007]

Follow up

Thanks to Clucas, Dave and John!

We have not removed the distributor yet, thanks for the suggestion...

We have to check the orientation of the rotor...is it supposed to face away from the engine?

Firing order: 1-2-4-3 is correct and spark plugs wires connected to the distributor cap in the proper order

We did not change any connections to the coil and they seem fine

The spark arrestor had gas in it...Dave cleaned the carb

When the engine was running, we had water discharging out the exhaust

Operating temp, not sure but was always normal, same as oil

Good point: we attempted to start the engine many times before with the RW valve OPEN...we have now closed it and took the muffler's plug off. Q: how do we know if water entered the cylinders?

We will let you know how the enigma progresses and thanks again for your valuable suggestions

[lat 64]

I can't add much to what's already been said but I had a similar problem after I replaced a fuel pump. It took me a long time to prime the fuel lines and filter housing. I had to recheck all the fittings for air leaks too. I was frustrated for quite some time.

Did you determine that the fuel pump was actually delivering fuel and not just making a ticking noise?

If the pump is delivering fuel and the carb is fine, then you should be getting gas all the way into the cylinders. Checking for wet plugs should determine this.

Russ

Ha! you were posting while I was slow at writing.

Yea, it could be that you put the fire out with water from cranking with the seacock open.
Might be time to dry it out. Pull a couple of plugs to see if they are wet with water and not gas(or both). Water will bead up on the plug. Gas will look wet and shiny.

Don't go home 'til you get the water out so you don't rust up.

repost

[JOHN COOKSON]

007
Here's how to check the coil.

First, as DN mentioned, be sure there is 12 volts present at coil +.

If you have points:
Pull the wire from the coil out of the center of the distributor cap but leave it plugged into the coil. Remove the distributor cap and turn the engine until the points are closed. While you hold the lead from the coil near ground (the engine) flick the points open and let them snap closed. A 1/4 - 3/8" blue white spark is good.

If you have an EI (electronic ignition):
Pull the big wire out of the center of the coil and hold it near the engine while someone turns the engine with the starter. This also checks the EI.

Don't leave the key or switch in the on position when the engine isn't running for more than a minute or two or the coil will be fried.

On your next post let us know if you have points or an EI.

TRUE GRIT

[Clucas]

We have not removed the distributor yet, thanks for the suggestion...

If you haven't removed the distributor, there is no need to do so -- I wanted to make certain that if you did, you didn't mess up the timing.

We have to check the orientation of the rotor...is it supposed to face away from the engine?

The rotor should face way from the engine if the engine is at Top Dead Center (TDC).

The spark arrestor had gas in it...Dave cleaned the carb

Fuel in the throat of the carb suggests fuel is getting to the carb.

Good point: we attempted to start the engine many times before with the RW valve OPEN...we have now closed it and took the muffler's plug off. Q: how do we know if water entered the cylinders?

We will let you know how the enigma progresses and thanks again for your valuable suggestions

As someone has already suggested, pull your plugs and look for evidence of water on them. I start my engine with the RW valve open as long as it starts right away. If it doesn't start right away, close the valve, get her started and then open the RW valve. A safer practice would be to always start with it closed and open the valve after the engine is running.

Lots of people here a heck of a lot smarter than me -- together we'll get her running.

[yeahjohn]

In my experience water freely flowed out of the carb when it entered the system. Your oil will also be milky white. Did you check your oil?

[Marian Claire]

"The rotor should face way from the engine if the engine is at Top Dead Center (TDC)."
I think that may be a safe statement for a late model that has never had its distributor removed. Do we know the history of the engine?
I think we could say that at #1 TDC which ever direction the rotor points is where your # 1 plug wire goes regardless of early/late or any history of distributor removal and possible replacement in a different orientation . Then follow firing order. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[JOHN COOKSON]

The rotor will point away from the engine that is towards 9 on the clock when you face the engine from the front and look down on the rotor (or pretend to stand at the front of the engine) if the distributor has never been remover or has been reinstalled in its original orientaton and when #1 cylinder is at TDC compression.

TRUE GRIT

[richohare]

Engine will not start...

Hi Guys,

Any update on the cause/resolution of this issue?

I am having a similar problem with a late model A4 in a CC30 MK1. Initial issue with fuel pump, engine still not starting after replacing pump, coil, distributor cap and rotor.

Fuel is flowing to carb so I think this problem is resolved

Coil is sparking

No spark from plugs???

Looking for any suggestions.

Thanks,
Rich O'Hare

[Dave Neptune]

info & new thread?

Rich, first welcome to the MMI forum. Sometimes treads ust fade away and we wonder.

I strongly suggest you take tis to a separate new tread.


All you need is compression fuel and spark at the right time (timing).

You have spark at the coil, correct? If you have spark at the coil and not at the plugs the problem is probably in the distributor. Did you move the distributor at all, or just removed the cap?

Do you understand how to check the plug wires for order?

What type of fuel pump, mech or electric?

Dave Neptune

[richohare]

Thanks Dave,

Only removed the Cap. Did not touch the distributor body or electronic ignition module. Is it safe to assume that if the Coil is sparking then the EI is working?

It is an electric fuel pump.

I will go back through the timing setup steps today to ensure I installed everything correctly. If it still isn't working then I will open up a new thread per your suggestion.

Cheers,
Rich