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  #101   IP: 70.186.109.11
Old 06-16-2018, 12:01 AM
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The batteries are in the front of the right side(facing fwd) quarterberth. The middle of the qb has an access hatch that lets me see the prop shaft stuffing box and fuel tank. The stuffing box is just within arm reach from that hatch. Used that opening to screw down the fuel tank support bracket I built. Also used it to change the trans cable. Due to the angle of the hull, you can put arms in it and peek in with your head, but not enough space to do more than that.

The left side of the engine box is hidden behind cabinetry with only a tiny openable door. Scratch that.

The coupling bolts are inside the walls of the engine box. You can barely see the end of the coupling from the qb access holes, but not the coupling bolts. MAYBE a long ratchet extension could unscrew the coupling bolts from the qb access hole if somebody guides the socket onto the bolt in the engine box.

Options as I see it are:

1)Pull the motor to have access to the parts.
2)Lay on top the engine and by feel try to remove the coupling bolts.
3)Remove the fuel tank. Remove the tank support. Cut the rear wall of the engine box enough to see what you're doing. Requires small person in confined space entering thru port locker.

Do this while the outside temp is 90 to 95 degrees. I've done a lot to this boat so far, but while this isn't very technical, its a major p-i-t-a.
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  #102   IP: 72.218.163.249
Old 06-16-2018, 08:20 AM
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Geeze, Bill, I know exactly what you're talking about. I concur: its a major p-i-t-a.
And I'm thinking changing the exhaust pipe is gonna be hard.

I vote option 1. That or like I'm semi jokingly thinking- cut a hole in the hull, like the big guys do.

Best wishes on the project- and I know you just want to go sailing.
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  #103   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 06-16-2018, 02:49 PM
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As you plan on how to get the engine out (shaft coupling, exhaust) include a strategy to get it back in - and aligned. Alignment is all about the shaft coupler.

If it were me I'd be thinking about removing structure around the engine and replacing with removable panels.
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  #104   IP: 131.162.198.114
Old 06-17-2018, 08:50 AM
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Plenty of good thoughts on this thread.

Regardless of whether you try to do this with the engine in situ or pulled, you are going to have to loosen the shaft coupling bolts with the engine in place.

And, as Neil wisely noted, you are going to have to align the engine (probably a good idea to do this whether you all the engine or not) and tighten the shaft coupling bolts with the engine in place.

All of which suggests you need better access to that coupling area than you have now.

On my E29, the coupling resides just ahead of the aft bulkhead of the engine compartment. There is an access panel - factory installed I believe - just aft of that to allow access to battery box, stuffing box, thru hulls and the shaft coupling. Without that access panel, it would be impossible to work on these items.

Suggestion - since you are going to need access to this area whichever route you choose, start by making an access panel and see what you can accomplish with the engine in place.

Hope that helps,

Peter
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  #105   IP: 174.235.143.248
Old 06-17-2018, 10:48 AM
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Went down to the boat about 10pm. If working during the daytime was too hot, then lets try the night.

Setup small a/c in the door frame, sealed it off.
Put drop light around back side of motor. This left me see the coupling and bolts.
Put cushion over top of engine. All access was over the top of the engine.
Used oscillating tool to remove parts of the back wall. Was just thin fiberglass. This gave me enough room to put tools in that area.
Removed 1st coupling bolt by pushing fwd on one bolt and bwd on another bolt so shaft would not spin. Bolt had oil on it, not rusty. Was very tight but came loose.
Put the trans in gear to assist keeping coupling still.
Cut a bit more of the back wall as the edges were hurting my hands.
Removed 2nd coupling bolt by pushing fwd on one bolt and bwd on another bolt so shaft would not spin. Bolt had oil on it, not rusty. Was very tight but came loose.
On the last bolt, had to figure how to keep the motor from spinning. Even in gear it would still turn. Found the manual engine crank handle. Inserted it and used that
to stop the crank from turning. With that holding things still, was able to break free the 3rd coupling bolt.

To separate the coupling halves, I took a hammer and tapped gently. Rotate the engine. Repeat. Rotate. Tap. At some point the coupling halves popped free.

The last problem was not enough room to pull the rear coupling off the shaft.
Stewed on that for a while but went with the only option.
Removed all 8 engine mount to floor bolts. Not rusty.
Removed the water outlet hose. Just a clamp.
Removed the muffler bolts. Not frozen and not rusty. I was amazed about this but the bolts looked 'newish' instead of ancient.
Pulled fwd on the engine enough to move it about an inch.
That was just enough clearance to pull the coupling off the shaft, and it came free.
Looked back into the work space and found the shaft pinch bolt. Also found the shaft key.

With all the parts in my hand, it became apparent what had happened.

1)The shaft pinch bolt backed out the hole. The hole in the shaft pinch bolt where you wire it up was clogged and dirty. There had been no wire to keep the pinch bolt in place.
2)The brass shaft key was only about 3/4 of an inch long and intact. The keyway on the coupling is about 1.5" long. That key was way too short.
3)The prop shaft keyway was all the way back against the water seal. This means the shaft itself had move rearward at some point. When it did move backwards(not having a pinch bolt), since the shaft key was so short, it disengaged from the coupling.

This is why the coupling would spin but the shaft didn't. The shaft had backed out the coupling due to a missing pinch bolt and with the short key, was no longer engaged in the coupling.

All parts are undamaged.

So now:
Have to find a longer brass key. I figure 1.5" should work. Material is square brass rod 1/4"(3/16"?) wide on a steel 3/4" prop shaft. Know where to find some?
Have to install and wire the shaft pinch bolt OR replace the coupling with the moyer coupling.
Put it all back together.

Went to bed about 2am.
When I got up, I installed the pertronix kit and the moyer coil.
Obviously did not start the engine with it disconnected like it was.
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Last edited by CajunSpike; 06-17-2018 at 09:49 PM.
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  #106   IP: 70.161.175.132
Old 06-17-2018, 05:43 PM
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Key Stock

McMaster Carr had some nice 18-8 stainless that is slightly under size.

92530A136, 18-8 Stainless Steel Machine Key Stock, Undersized, 1/4" x 1/4", 12" Long

If a customer wants one with a prop, this is what I use. They also have full size brass.

Tom
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:05 PM
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Two recommendations:
  1. Match the key material to the shaft as close as possible. Bronze shaft = brass key. You want to minimize dissimilar metals the best you can.
  2. Dimple the shaft where the set screw lands with a drill.
    • Slide the coupler onto the shaft where you want it
    • mark the set screw location through its hole in the coupler
    • remove the coupler from the shaft
    • drill the dimple in the shaft (I always liked using a 5/16" drill bit for this)
    It's extra work for sure but makes for a superior installation.
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  #108   IP: 174.235.134.153
Old 06-17-2018, 07:14 PM
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Moyer staff.... will your split coupling mate up with the 3 bolt engine coupling half as is?

To explain better, if I keep the original coupling half bolted to the motor, will the back half you sell, correctly attach to it.

Diameter of current coupling is 3/4". Key appears to be 3/16th.
Original rear coupling has 3 holes for bolts to pass thru, not threaded.
Front 1/2 has 3 threaded holes. Bolts have 9/16" heads.
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Last edited by CajunSpike; 06-17-2018 at 09:38 PM.
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  #109   IP: 138.207.175.58
Old 06-17-2018, 07:17 PM
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Forwarded to Don.

Bill
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  #110   IP: 70.186.109.11
Old 06-17-2018, 07:53 PM
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Since ya'll have been patient enough to read this and help, time for the photos.

Slid the drop light in the engine box. First good view of the subject. Back wall intact. Ventilation fan was removed.


Wide angle shot of engine box. Back wall intact. Batteries are under door to left.


Straight down view of coupling. Back wall cut.


Side view after coupling removed and engine moved. Back wall cut. Muffler system and water line removed.


Straight down view after coupling removed and engine moved. Back wall cut. Notice how close the shaft keyway is to the water seal.
This proves the shaft is further back than usual. Hate to think what would have happened if the shaft backed itself all the way out.


The source of this discussion. The key is yellow. Its WAY too short for what I think it should be. I called it brass. What you you think? Key size is either 3/16"(probably this) or 1/4"
Prop shaft is stainless steel as far as I can tell. Isn't the key supposed to be softer material than the shaft so it can shear on impact?
If both are steel, there is no shearing ability right? The hole in the pin bolt was clogged with trash. This proves there was no safety cable installed. Its been opened in this pic.
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Last edited by CajunSpike; 06-17-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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  #111   IP: 70.186.109.11
Old 06-18-2018, 10:21 PM
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Just placed order with MMI.
New solid coupling 3/4".
New impeller.
New water pump gasket.
New exhaust pipe gasket and bolts.

Should be able to put this back together, no problem.
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  #112   IP: 184.176.196.206
Old 06-19-2018, 10:14 AM
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Ran into a problem.

The original coupling is 3/4" opening for the shaft. Repeatedly measured, of this I'm sure.

The key that it uses is 1/4" square rod.

I know this because I bought a 3/16" key and it was too small.
Swapped the 3/16" for a 1/4" and the 1/4" key fits perfect.

The coupling I bought from Moyer that is 3/4" only comes with a 3/16" keyway.
Called them and cancelled the order this morning.

Anybody knows where I can find an A4 coupling for 3/4" shaft using a 1/4" keyway?
Old part is reusable if necessary but I'd rather replace it.
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  #113   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 06-19-2018, 10:25 AM
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Either find a local machine shop capable of broaching or clean up the old coupler.
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  #114   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 06-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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The 'key' is that the key fit the shaft well. If the shaft has a 1/4" keyway, then you want to use a 1/4" key. It should be a press fit into the shaft. The part of the key that fits into the coupling can be cut down to 3/16". The key can be a bit loose in the coupling with no issues.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:37 AM
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So you're suggesting using a 'dual size key'? Like half of it being 3/16 and the other half being 1/4?

Don't know if it exists like that short of a machine shop making one.
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  #116   IP: 108.45.44.91
Old 06-19-2018, 10:45 AM
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Found these, but neither specify the keyway width. Guess you'll have to call them. Both appear to be a Buck Algonqun part, specifically for the Atomic 4.

https://propshopinc.com/3-1-2-solid-...mc350-p14.html

https://www.generalpropeller.com/sol...1=Transmission
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:53 AM
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  #117   IP: 184.176.196.206
Old 06-19-2018, 11:03 AM
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Ok, I'm an idiot.

Was about to post a photo showing the size of the hole in the coupling, that it was 3/4".


The only problem is that I'm using a printed ruler and I didn't start at zero. Started at the edge of the paper.
Starting at zero, the coupling hole is 7/8".

The Moyer part for a 7/8" shaft DOES include a 1/4" keyway.
I'll go back to my closet now.


:-(
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  #118   IP: 166.137.252.115
Old 06-19-2018, 11:06 AM
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FWIW I think the split coupling is a huge and worthy upgrade. Getting a sound shaft out of a sound solid coupling in tight quarters is a terrible horrible no good very bad job.
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