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  #1   IP: 46.176.146.77
Old 10-30-2015, 01:39 AM
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Smile freeze plugs

Good morning with a question,
how many freeze plugs does the A-4 has? Where are they located? and what size/s are they?
Oops, that is 3 questions?
thanks
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  #2   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 10-30-2015, 04:20 PM
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Six, two in the block, two in the head and two in the manifold. On my late model spare engine the two in the manifold are cup type core plugs, the block and head take Welch plugs. Moyer sells them.
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Old 10-30-2015, 09:01 PM
HOTFLASH HOTFLASH is offline
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Question Cup and Welch plugs?

Hey Neil,

What the difference between cup and Welch plugs?

Mary
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  #4   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 10-30-2015, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTFLASH View Post
What the difference between cup and Welch plugs?
From earlier this year:
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...58&postcount=4
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 07-18-2020 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:55 PM
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Talking Mechanic Jargon

I've been hearing mechanics use the term "freeze plug" since I was apprenticed at 12 years old. Don't know how it got started but it has become industry lingo. I have seen blocks saved by the opportune popping of one of them but to be clear, they cannot be relied on to save a block from freeze destruction; we have seen ample proof right on this Forum.
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:13 AM
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http://econofix.com/frezplug.html

Until I came on this forum I'd never heard them called anything except Frost Plugs. Only time I'd seen them rust through was in boat engines RWC. Have seen many partially pop out due to low antifreeze protection mostly in vehicles who's owner's neglected to check antifreeze frost protection level...and it is true that the weakest point will fail with frost. Just this spring we had an A4 at the club with popped frost plug. The owner was selling the boat and his cousin came to fire it up. He put water through the engine and come spring start up, sold to new owner, one plug on downward end of manifold partially popped.

Had a look at it for him and told him there might be more damage...there wasn't, and it took about 20 minutes to put another one in...all good since.
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Last edited by Mo; 10-31-2015 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:43 AM
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If they were really designed for freeze protection, why winterize? Why do different style plugs exist like the expandable rubber types? They'll never pop out in a freeze. It would be a destructive and expensive lesson but I challenge anyone convinced the plugs protect against a freeze to rely on them for a single winter and not winterize.

Here's another previous post that speaks to their true purpose:
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...44&postcount=7

As Mo said, they might pop in a freeze but just out of dumb luck. It's kind of like our waterlift mufflers. They are not designed or intended to muffle at all but rather use exhaust pressure to lift expended cooling water from below the waterline to expel it overboard. They are commonly called mufflers because of their position in the exhaust line and because of sheer dumb luck they reduce exhaust noise a little too but that is not why they exist.

The best part is reading the internet treatments on freeze plugs. There are many articles espousing their freeze protection design (not a very good design if that was really their intent) and speak from self appointed authority. Gotta love the internet. The Bolshoi is not limited to boating concerns but we have our own term for it.
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:52 AM
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Neil, when I bought my boat the exhaust manifold was literally shattered inside. It wouldn't even start if I opened the water intake valve. It must not have been winterized at all and layed up 2 years on Cape Cod. No frost plugs were popped though...and luckily the block sustained no damage. The pieces inside the manifold were rather large, indicating frost, as chunks were pushed toward the dry side of it....sort of like a slow push until it broke. As a result of the water that got in around the valves and sat there I had to remove the head, valves etc, clean everything up, and reseat the valves.
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Last edited by Mo; 10-31-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:59 AM
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Exactly Mo, your experience makes the point. They are accurately core plugs because they fill vestigial holes left behind by cores necessary in the casting process.
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1977 Catalina 30
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Had my hands in a few others
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:39 AM
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So the real answer to "How many freeze plugs does the A4 have?" is zero!
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Old 10-31-2015, 10:54 AM
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Well, technically that is correct but the inaccurate vernacular is so commonplace that everyone recognizes the product. Even MMI uses the freeze description in their catalog. We know what they're talking about even if we know better.

From our sailing friends, many of them MacGregor owners:
Stairs = ladder
Floor = sole
Wall = bulkhead, maybe
Wall = riser, the other maybe
Window = port
Rope = line
Bed = berth
Kitchen = galley
Closet = locker

Not the most accurate but we know what they mean.
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1977 Catalina 30
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 10-31-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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  #12   IP: 46.176.146.77
Old 11-02-2015, 12:12 PM
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Wink core plugs

I want to thank all of you that took the time to reply on the issue of the so-called freeze plugs.
I will order the plugs from Don. I imagine that the 3x2 different sizes he sells will cover all plugs on the engine?
Yes, I agree of the plugs being misleading when they are called freeze plugs.
They are used for casting reasons only and never depend on them when hell freezes over.!
Thanks again
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