Hoisting the engine

[jpian0923]

From the video i saw:

I hate to be a smart ass but, I don't see spark plugs in the head.
I don't see plug wires going to spark plugs in the head.

Am I a day late and a dollar short?

[ILikeRust]

Day late, dollar short, yes.

I took that video to just show the general setup. At that point, all I had done was crank it to make sure I had oil pressure. To do that, I left the plugs out.

We of course put the plugs in before attempting to start it.

I guess I have to open at least the reversing gear cover plate and shine a flashlight in there and see if I can't see the timing marks on the cam and crank. If I can't see them then I guess the rear housing comes back off. AGAIN.

And if that @#$^! cam is not properly aligned, I'm going to want to know why the !@#$%&! not.

This overhaul is becoming a cautionary tale.

[ILikeRust]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

If you have not done so already, please take the exhaust pipe out of the water.

You're thinking too much back pressure?

It's in the water only about 2 inches.

But yeah, I am thinking I'll leave it out next time. All it did was blow water all over the place on the few occasions we actually did get a pop out that end.

I'm just concerned how loud a straight pipe will be. But I guess I'll just find out. I hope.

[ILikeRust]

[YOUTUBE]dqIBbaUn7iU[/YOUTUBE]

[jpian0923]

Cut off just the stuff after "=" to embed video. dqIBbaUn7iU goes between youtube brackets.

[YOUTUBE]dqIBbaUn7iU[/YOUTUBE]

[jpian0923]

Careful with the gaskets when you open her up again.
Need some duct tape?

[ILikeRust]

No need to open her up again - other than "opening her up" with the throttle:

[YOUTUBE]eGv9BrRclCM[/YOUTUBE]

[ndutton]

That's great Bill. Of the things that might have been wrong, that one was the best we could hope for. Time now to plan the install.

[jpian0923]

Nice Work!

You didn't show us the oil pressure though.

[ILikeRust]

I re-torqued the head once; now I'm letting it cool down. My neighbor is out and about, and I'm sure he'll be totally stoked to see (and hear) it run, so I'll fire it up again later for him, let it get up to temp and re-torque the head again, per Moyer's instructions.

As you might have noticed in the video, I suddenly realized my discharge hose had a crimp in it and was impeding water flow. I cut that few inches off the hose to get rid of the kink, so it should be better now.

After I shut the engine off, I heard a little sizzling sound coming from the manifold that told me I had some water boiling in there - not good. I figured that kink in the hose wasn't helping things. Then I realized that I had started the engine with the ball valve in the Moyer bypass kit closed and had forgotten to open it.

Fortunately, the temp gauge was showing about 180-190, and when I opened up the valve, it quickly dropped back down to 150, so I figure no harm done. I'm going to have to get used to that. Once I get it in the boat and get the heat exchanger all installed, I'll obviously have to spend some time fiddling with it until I find the sweet spot.

Question: oil pressure. Once the engine got going and warmed up, my brand-new gauge was showing about 40-45 pounds. I tightened up the regulating valve and bumped it up near 50, but to do so, I've got the screw run nearly all the way in. The Moyer Manual says to start with it sticking out 3/4", but if I did that, I would have no oil pressure at all. Should I replace that little spring in there? Maybe put a stronger one in?

I also am thinking maybe I would like to put an external oil filter setup on it once I get it installed in the boat. I can see how this becomes addictive - now that I've go so much work into this baby, I want to do everything I can to keep it happy, clean and running smooth!

Another: you might notice in the video the occasional little "pop" or "crackle" in the exhaust note. Not quite as smooth and continuous as I thought it would be. Maybe just because there's no backpressure, so I'm getting a little unburned mixture hitting the exhaust pipe? Or maybe because I need to fine-tune the ignition timing a degree or two?

Finally (for the moment, until I think of something else): anybody know what this is? When I took the engine out of the boat, this was attached to the big battery lug on the back of the starting solenoid:








As you can see, it has two connection points on it, and there were wires going in there - I'm assuming they were wires to the start switch.

I guess I should undo that screw and open it up to see what's inside.

[ILikeRust]

Never mind - answered my own question!

[ndutton]

Bill,
In the interest of a great opportunity to learn here, given your expert neighbor and in consideration of the following,

Originally Posted by ILikeRust

We also removed the #1 spark plug to confirm when the piston was at TDC and that both intake and exhaust valves were closed, so that not only were we sure we were at the right part of the cycle, but we also knew that the camshaft timing was correct, since the valves were closed when they were supposed to be closed and opening when they were supposed to be opening. I actually took an LED flashlight and shined it in there so I could directly SEE the intake valve and be sure it was closed. You can see the exhaust valve right under the spark plug hole. We used at a small screw driver to feel when the piston was at TDC.

how did the error happen? Especially with knowledgeable eyes on the situation, we could all learn from this.

And congrats again, you've got to be feelin' pretty good about now.

[thatch]

Bill,
Good to hear your voice again and to finally hear your engine. Having your engine running on an engine stand presents a great opportunity to fine tune it before dropping it into the boat. Mine seems to idle best and has decent power at about 2 degrees btdc of ignition timing. I realize that there are other ways of "power tuning" these things but I really like to know where I'm at with the spark.
Tom

[ILikeRust]

Originally Posted by ndutton

Bill,
In the interest of a great opportunity to learn here, given your expert neighbor and in consideration of the following,

how did the error happen? Especially with knowledgeable eyes on the situation, we could all learn from this.

And congrats again, you've go to be feelin' pretty good about now.

OK, first, I have to correct one detail about what I said there. I got the intake and exhaust valves mixed up. I had to remind myself this morning that the smaller valve is the exhaust, and the larger one is the intake. So the one you can see right under the spark plug hole is the intake, not the exhaust. The exhaust valve is much harder to see, but you can feel it and tell whether it's open or closed by using a very small screwdriver or piece of stiff wire (I used a bit of a wire shirt hanger), and if you shine a bright light in there at an angle and peek in just right, you can see it.

Anyhow, that confusion, I believe, was partially responsible for my error.

The other contributor was simply that I was tired by the time we were trying it. It was a hot day and I had been at it all day, and by then I was sweaty, dirty, thirsty and tired. But I really wanted to hear it run, so I kept going. But yeah, there are no two ways about it - I just plain screwed up and made a mistake.

When I went out to my workshop this morning, by myself, with a fresh head and having just finished 2 cups o' coffee, and having spent all last night thinking about it, I first said, "OK, let's make sure the cam timing is right." To do that, I opened up the #1 spark plug and peered in with my little flashlight, and slowly turned the crankshaft by hand and watched what the valves and the piston were doing. After a few rotations, I was absolutely convinced that the valves were opening and closing when they were supposed to, so I knew the cam timing indeed was right. So I set it at TDC on what I was positive was the combustion stroke.

Then I thought for a few seconds. And I realized the thing to do, now that I knew 100%, positively, for sure, that I had #1 properly at TDC, would be to open the distributor and confirm the rotor was pointing where it was supposed to be pointing.

I opened up the cap and found the rotor pointing directly at the block - 180 degrees from where it was supposed to be.

I immediately realized that when I set TDC yesterday afternoon, it obviously had been on the exhaust stroke. It's as simple as that. I simply had not taken a careful enough look at what the valves were doing.

Keep in mind that I can't see the roll pin on the front of the crankshaft, because I have installed the stub shaft for the drive pulley for the Moyer FWC kit.

My neighbor didn't double-check my work, so it's totally not his fault. He stood next to me as I poked in there with my little screwdriver and looked at the valves and declared: "OK, we're at TDC right now." So he rightly assumed I could be trusted (I guess he doesn't know me well enough yet) and had done that right, and he focused his efforts on the distributor - which of course would have been the correct thing to do, had we actually been at TDC on the right part of the cycle. But we were a full revolution off.

So when I saw that this morning, I took the distro out, put it back in with the rotor pointing the right way, put the cap back on, put the #1 spark plug back in, flipped the switch, hit the starter, and she went "pow" once and then just ran like crazy. I didn't even have to choke it.

As you might imagine, I was pretty excited. Particularly because I confirmed that I didn't have to open the damn thing up yet again, and because I did the whole thing myself, start to finish, including figuring out my own stupid mistakes and correcting them. Pretty darn good feeling.

[ILikeRust]

Originally Posted by thatch

Bill,
Good to hear your voice again and to finally hear your engine. Having your engine running on an engine stand presents a great opportunity to fine tune it before dropping it into the boat. Mine seems to idle best and has decent power at about 2 degrees btdc of ignition timing. I realize that there are other ways of "power tuning" these things but I really like to know where I'm at with the spark.
Tom

I'll have to get a timing light, or see if my neighbor has one. I messed around with the distributor a little bit and discovered that very tiny movements have immediately noticeable effects. I ended up setting it where it sounded best and locked it down. I figure once it's in the boat, with the FWC kit all installed, and the prop shaft hooked up, I can put a load on it and then see how it goes.

[ILikeRust]

Originally Posted by jpian0923

You didn't show us the oil pressure though.

Since you asked...

[ndutton]

Pretty complete mea culpa there Bill.

It sounds to me like you did everything right except for confusing the exhaust and intake valves when peering through the spark plug hole. It's funny how the smallest little thing can turn into a fiasco. Your experience here will have us all be a little more careful when we are in your shoes.

The smartest thing you did was step away when you knew you were fatigued.

[hanleyclifford]

Bill - Good to see your engine running and read your "after action" report. Is it not amazing how simple it always seems to be after the fact? No matter how many times I have done this drill I still do the same thing - get myself 180 out and cannot believe it. But then I have to believe it. BTW, whenever a crankshaft pin is to be covered it is a good idea to make a new marking on whatever attachment you have added so as to keep track of TDC. As you can see on my engine I also have mounted a pointer on the flywheel housing so TDC is always readable. Of course this does not protect you from being 180 out. It is easier to just move the plug wires on top of the distributor when this occurs. All the best, Hanley

[TomG]

BIll,

Many congratulations! Thanks for taking the time to document this rebuild so thoroughly and thanks also for your candid self-assessment of mistakes. I think we have all learned something and many of us have learned a lot from your chronicles.

Well done!

[sailhog]

This is a great thread.....

[ILikeRust]

It occurred to me Sunday night that one thing this whole experience has taught me is to immediately return a tool to its proper place immediately after using it.

My usual M.O. is to pull out a wrench, or socket, or screwdriver, or whatever, use it, and then lay it down wherever I happen to be working at that moment.

Then I turn around, go to the next step, and then two minutes later, when I turn around again and need that same wrench, it takes me ten minutes to find it - if I can find it at all.

I also found that individual sockets have a nasty habit of falling off whatever surface you place them on and rolling away to the most inaccessible, spider-web-choked, sawdust-filled spot that it can find underneath a workbench, toolbox or machine.

So my new routine is use the tool, put it right back in its spot in the drawer. Next time I need it, boom, there it is, in the drawer, where it's supposed to be.

I really need to get better at that. I also need to neaten up and organize my shop so that each tool has a designated spot. Right now, that's not the case - too much stuff just lying about on any available surface.

Another thing that is very worth-while are those little socket organizing strips. If you're looking for the 1/2-inch socket (the 1/2-inch and the 9/16, in that order, are the most used in overhauling the Atomic 4), it's right there on the little strip of sockets. If it's not, you'll know instantly. Just have to get in the habit of putting the socket back immediately after you use it.

[sastanley]

Bill..you got that right. I am terrible at it, and get frustrated with myself all the time. At least the boat is a smaller area for the tools to run & hide from me..

[jpian0923]

I have a great project for you Bill.

Make a list of all the tools needed for an A4 overhaul and post it here.

I bet you it makes it into the "tech tips" with a credit to you.

[ILikeRust]

- Vice grips
- Duct tape
- Coat hanger
- Hose clamps
- Goodly supply of cuss words
- Band-Aids
- Citrus hand cleaner (I've nearly used up a big bottle of the stuff)
- Several small fur-bearing mammals
- .30-caliber rifle cleaning kit
- Big wad of $100 bills

[jpian0923]

alot of duct tape