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  #126   IP: 71.222.3.150
Old 07-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunSpike View Post
You can also see two thru hulls connected to each other.type of alarm speaker.

...Its just that with all the experience out there, SOMEBODY has already faced and fixed these problems.
Yep. Been there done that on almost every one of those "issues".
water tank / sinks and faucets / DC wiring and panel / AC wiring and panel / replaced ALL gauges (engine AND boat) / replaced thru-hulls and valves

My advice...
Make a "punch" list with each of the projects listed by their priority of needing attention.

And, if it were my vessel, I'd put replacing those thru hulls and that gate valve at the very top of the list.
(Especially if you're already on the hard)
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  #127   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 07-15-2018, 10:50 AM
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You may want to do more than just fix what's there. Example: there's no way the water tank is factory original (plumber's tape, really?). It's an ill conceived and poorly executed previous owner nightmare and the bow is the last place you want to add weight anyway.

Consider that if the PO did that, what else did he do?
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prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
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  #128   IP: 70.186.109.11
Old 07-15-2018, 11:44 AM
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Not surprisingly, part of my concern is that I haven't seen a boat like this before. Its hard to know whats right or how it was supposed to be. Yes you can rig and repair anything but is that how it really was designed? I have no clue how many owners there were before I got it, but know of at least 3.

Just taking one step at a time.

Boat is currently in the water. Haven't had the engine running reliably enough before this stage to even get it to a marina for haul out.
Was towed to current location around January 18.

I've left the slip 3 times in 7 months.
1)Went motor around the marina just on test run. Shifting was so difficult, went back to dock. Replaced rusty shift cable.
2)Actually went out past the marina walls on 4/29(about an hour) using outboard fuel tank. Things seems to work decently, nothing quit on me.
3)Went out for 3 hours 5/20, after fuel system replacement. Really good day, but prop shaft backed out of coupling on last minute reverse to back into slip.

And if the water tank is not in the bow, where is it on your boat?
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunSpike View Post
And if the water tank is not in the bow, where is it on your boat?
My tank location may not apply because I have a completely different brand and size boat, therefore might have spaces you don't. For the sake of conversation however, my potable water tank is amidships under the stbd settee, holding tank is opposite on the port side. The water tank on my buddy's E26-2 (same interior as yours) is under the stbd settee.

Are you a member on the Ericson Yachts Owners forum (EYO)? Pretty good bunch of guys over there. They can provide a wealth of brand-specific information.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:58 PM
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  #130   IP: 70.186.110.20
Old 08-13-2018, 08:44 PM
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Got myself together and took the E27 out on the lake for several hours. Wind was light and went down hill from there. After a few hours of not much happening, motored back to the slip. Got to about 20 feet from the slip still in motion and idled way down where upon the motor died. After a few frantic non responsive cranks, I gave up and grabbed a bypassing rope with the boathook.

Managed to get the boat stopped with only a small scrape to the side against a neighbors anchor. No other impact or rough damage occurred fortunately.

Somebody saw what was happening and helped me get the boat tied up. By that time, the heat index of 104 was too much for me. I just locked it up and walked away. Didn't bother even hooking up the electrical line.

Engine ran great the whole trip but again in the last few seconds, it had an issue that may have been bad if I had more speed up. This is exactly why I literally float/crawl in the slip area.

I have no answers at this point since I didn't stay after tie up to check anything on the engine.
Guess I'll save that for next visit.

This was first trip with pertronix and I put 3 more gallons of fresh gas in the tank. Only had 1 or 2 gallons in it before the refill.
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:57 PM
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Bill, since I removed the PCV valve, I've been able to set the idle much lower. This works great, EXCEPT, when I bring the throttle down and take it out of gear during a 'stop the boat' event. It sometimes stalls on me. I am still working to figure out the cause...the solution so far has to break my old habit and get the throttle down enough to safely take it in and out of gear, but not low enough for it to stall.
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  #132   IP: 72.194.219.196
Old 08-14-2018, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
. I am still working to figure out the cause...the solution so far has to break my old habit and get the throttle down enough to safely take it in and out of gear, but not low enough for it to stall.
Maybe a stuck or sticky advance mentioned in another thread?
You're on the boat. I'm in front of a computer screen........
Let us know if servicing the advance solves this issue.

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  #133   IP: 107.77.106.76
Old 08-14-2018, 07:28 AM
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It's a little tricky to determine if stalling at low idle is a problem with the carb settings, the idle setting, the timing, or not a problem at all. Low idle is all about precision, and some people revel in how low an idle speed they can get in neutral. It is an impressive accomplishment, but if you have everything set up perfectly with a fully warmed up engine, by definition it isnít perfectly set up any more with a cold(ish) engine. Yet thatís what you have after a few hours of sailing.

So if she idles slowly in neutral but stalls in gear once in a while at those very low idle speeds, I wouldnít worry much about it (although personally I would adjust the idle speed cam on the throttle so that it never happens). Just donít run the engine in gear at those low idle speeds in close quarters. Run a little faster and shift between neutral and forward as necessary. I consider this a good practice anyway during docking maneuvers; you shouldnít need to shift from forward straight to reverse unless thereís some sick crosswind.

Of greater concern to me is why she didnít start right back up after the stall. This would drive me nuts in fact. With a little more throttle and no choke, I expect mine to fire up instantly after a low-speed stall, even in gear. Iíd guess of course you gave her more throttle first - perhaps your carb is running a bit too lean? A slight timing/advance adjustment might help but I can never recall which direction applies when. Is it possible your OPSS is seeing low oil pressure at low idle and turned off the fuel pump?

Edit: new Pertronix, hmmm. Makes me think a timing adjustment may be in order. Your coil is a 4-ohm Moyer, I presume? Much written about the need for that here.

Last edited by tenders; 08-14-2018 at 07:40 AM.
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  #134   IP: 184.176.196.206
Old 08-14-2018, 11:17 AM
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Haven't had a problem stalling issue before this event.

I intentionally idled up the carb/adjusted the mixture so it would not stall when I pressed the throttle full back either in gear or in neutral.

About the only thing that comes to mind was that it was still in gear when it dropped, at a very low rpm.

Only had about 10 seconds before the boat hit something so there was only time for 2 quick cranks before I gave up and grabbed the hook. Engine was on both batteries and spun quickly. No hint of start.

I normally do a bump in gear-bump out as needed to keep the motion going when close to the slip
This time was going along and idled all the way down and it died. Did not get a chance to bump to neutral.

After my testing before this outing, It blew me away that it would not fire up when needed.

So I guess next weekend, its back to basics with spark and fuel checking if it does not fire up on its own.

I got the pertonix kit from an ebay seller, new in box.
I got the coil from Moyer. Did not ohm check it....yet.

I'll throw a maybe in there. Was rushed but I vaguely remember the choke MAY have been left partially open. At the slow idle it was, that may have overwhelmed the air flow killing the engine.

Will find out next weekend, when I try to restart it.

While I was installing the new plate for the pertronix, I put some light oil on the distributor spring advance mechanism. It moved freely with no sticking...
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  #135   IP: 107.77.70.83
Old 08-14-2018, 08:54 PM
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Sounds like youíre doing everything right but, maybe, the choke, which could explain the stall and the failure to immediately restart. Especially if you didnít have time or presence of mind to give it more throttle before re-cranking.

May I ask why the choke might have been partially out? Except when the engine is very cold, as in October/November cold, my choke is either all-out to start and run for a few seconds, or all-in to run.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:09 PM
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Its very possible the cause of this is just that I left it slightly open on initial startup.

It was a long run coming back to the dock. Enough to get the engine definitely up to running temp.

I feel that any choke that that point probably would be too much for the engine when fully warm, to fire off easily.

The reason why the choke is in my mind is because I just hit the key the 1st restart try. No start. Glanced real quick and saw choke lever not full out but not full in either. Slapped it in and did crank again. No go and by that time I was committed to catching the boat or hitting something.

Choke/key/gauges are inside the cabin. Steering position is outside.

The only strange thing about this train of thought is that I stopped and started the engine several times to reposition to wind during the trip. Had no problem on those occasions. However this run was much longer than any of the reposition runs and I probably idled it lower then the other times.

The literal heat exhaustion was too much to try to diagnose at that time.

I'll say it again. Sincere thanks for all your comments and input.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunSpike View Post
Choke/key/gauges are inside the cabin. Steering position is outside.
I think you just learned the shortcomings of that arrangement.
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  #138   IP: 70.186.110.20
Old 08-14-2018, 10:25 PM
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Neil you strike me as a person I'd enjoy spending the day with, just learning.

And I'm sure there are a good number of others here that it applies to as well.

May see if I can make a run to the boat after work one day this week to get the power hooked up and do a restart try. My job is about 30 minutes from the boat slip.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:33 PM
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Neil you strike me as a person I'd enjoy spending the day with, just learning and I'm sure there are a good number of others here that it applies to as well
Well, thanks and you're right, a good bunch of guys here. Before you joined, the forum had a meet and greet last year in the Annapolis area. Meeting several of the folks who previously were just names on a monitor was quite a pleasure. The only thing that could have been better was for it to have lasted twice as long.

Good times . . .
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:36 PM
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If nothing else, you can see the New Orleans skyline and how calm the lake was, last sunday.



The engine gauges and key are to the left side of the cabin opening, just past the door.
Boat just came that way.

Under the blue covering is some non working wind instruments.

I did track the outing but forgot to save the track...go figure.

On the pleasant side, the boat does about 5 knots in calm water at about 1500 rpm, according to cell phone based navionics.
Pushing it to wot gives about 5.5-5.7 knots, so may as well save the gas.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:55 PM
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If you ever decide to rewire your engine, that would be a good time to consider relocating the gauges and controls to the helm. MMI carries all the necessary parts and the forum has several wiring diagrams to help the project along.
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  #142   IP: 72.194.219.196
Old 08-15-2018, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunSpike View Post
(A)I feel that any choke that that point probably would be too much for the engine when fully warm, to fire off easily.

(B)The reason why the choke is in my mind is because I just hit the key the 1st restart try. No start. Glanced real quick and saw choke lever not full out but not full in either. Slapped it in and did crank again. No go and by that time I was committed to catching the boat or hitting something.

(C)Choke/key/gauges are inside the cabin. Steering position is outside.
.
(A) For a properly tuned engine momentary full choke is necessary to start fully warmed up engine.
(B) How are you adjusting the choke? Mine is adjusted so when the button is pushed all the way down to open the choke it springs back up ~1/8" when pressure is taken off of it. If I don't get the slight spring up of the button I know something is wrong with the choke.
(C) Probably deigned by a naval architect that didn't like his\her job.

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Old 08-15-2018, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
(A) For a properly tuned engine momentary full choke is necessary to start fully warmed up engine.
(B) How are you adjusting the choke? Mine is adjusted so when the button is pushed all the way down to open the choke it springs back up ~1/8" when pressure is taken off of it. If I don't get the slight spring up of the button I know something is wrong with the choke.
(C) Probably deigned by a naval architect that didn't like his\her job.

TRUE GRIT
A. While choke on warm start may be necessary for an engine tuned to maximize fuel efficiency at cruising speed, CajunSpike's experience is a good illustration why an engine should probably be tuned to minimize gelcoat irregularities. At least mine is. Some textbook's definition of "optimum" be darned, I expect mine to start without choke if warm.

B. That is a good idea; I'd never considered it. Similarly, the Navy method of opening a gate valve "wide open" involves opening it all the way to the valve stop, then closing it a small amount, a quarter turn or so. That reduces the chance of the valve stem sticking, and if you grab the handle as long as the valve isn't closed, it should turn a little bit in either direction as an indication that the valve isn't frozen.

C. Ugh. There's a reason they don't put car gauges in the back seat. Keys and gauges are meant to be operated/seen from the helm.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:44 PM
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This is the panel layout....INSIDE the cabin door.



I'm pretty sure ya'll know what each item is.
Directly below this panel(not shown) is a rpm gauge and an engine hour meter.

The choke is a PULL and its on, PUSH and its off type control.
To turn it off, I just push it until it hits the wall.
Inspection on a open choke does show there is no more 'opening' available when the control is pushed in all the way.
Due to the length of the choke cable and the age of the cable(I lubricated it as best I could), it takes a decent amount of pull to close the choke.
A lot less effort to open it.

I remember being surprised the pull wasn't bottomed out, on my first restart attempt. If it behaves as normal, that would mean the choke was slightly open.

You know....just looking at this photo, there is a small rope hanging from the choke pull. It was there since I got the boat. Its conceivable that rope could block
the choke from fully closing if you're not aware of what you're doing. This is its last day on that choke pull.

The other side of this is that the boat came with a tiller, but has had a wheel installed.
So if you're in position behind the wheel, you're that much further from the gauges that you can't see.
And although it now has a wheel, the motor speed and fwd/rev assembly is still on the cockpit side wall where it was when it had a tiller, which is not
in range of the steering position unless you're sitting in front of the wheel.

I just have to keep saying to myself 'this boat was built in the stone age of 1972'.
:-)
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:26 PM
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What year is your boat Bill? (Oops, nevermind, it's in your signature) The early 70's Newport 30 and 27 (I think) had their engine controls in the same place.

My Catalina 30 was originally tiller steered, had its engine control panel in the lower port cockpit seat riser. You might have been able to see the gauges sitting on the stbd side and were also guaranteed to kick it sooner or later. After I converted to pedestal steering the gauges were impossible to see so the entire panel was relocated to the upper aft stbd coaming. Way better.

An advantage you have over my relocation is you don't have a hole the size of a legal tablet to repair in the fiberglass.
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:04 AM
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You could put the tiller back!

Don't blame the technology. Blame some PO for not finishing a big job of wheel conversion.

Most 32s have wheels, or were converted to wheels, but mine still has the tiller and I prefer it. I really like the fact that the aft seat where one would be sitting with a wheel is not where the tiller driver sits. It's a great place for inexperienced sailors to sit - they won't get hit by anything and don't have to do anything, bug aren't banished to the rail.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:05 AM
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After two outings with the tiller the decision was made to go with a wheel. The Catalina 30 is a bear to tiller steer under power, a handful under sail too and accepting the aging process is relentless something had to be done.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:26 AM
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Went back to the boat yesterday.
Finished everything I walked away from last time like ropes and power.
Closely examined the choke pull. The rope WAS keeping the choke pull from being fully closed. Rope now gone.

Did a cold start crank using choke.
Fired off like normal.

Add that to the lessons learned.
Will still do some tied up testing to make sure full slow in gear does not kill the motor.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:04 PM
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Will still do some tied up testing to make sure full slow in gear does not kill the motor.
With a bit of futzing around I was able to get my idle down to 575-600 RPM. I can shift into and out of gear without touching the throttle and the engine does not die. Handy when docking.

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