Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Fuel System

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-28-2020, 01:35 PM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Fuel Tank Cleaning

During the past 2 seasons, I experienced carburetor problems. Despite
changing filters and a new carb, they continued. It seems that the problems
begun with running the tank down to 1/4 or less.
I have always added mmo and stabilizer with every fill and especially
topping the tank off at the end of the season.

I have a Tartan 34C with a stainless steel tank, electric fuel pump, Racor fuel water separator and in line filter. All of which get changed every season.

Ten years ago, I emptied the tank with a siphon hose via the removal of the tank fuel level gauge. I then emptied the contents of 3 cans of carb cleaner
into the tank. I then swished a rag tied to a flexible wooden (no static) stick around inside the tank as best I could, removing rag multiple times and squeezing it out into a container. I then refilled the tank with clean fuel.
Not a perfect solution to implement or clean 100%. But it worked without
issue for nearly 10 years.

I was wondering about trying a different method.

I saw on line where someone used a electric fuel pump in liine with
racor and 2 in line filters. He recycled the fuel back nto the tank until
fuel was viewed in a cup as clean, He also changed in line filters
twice.

I was also thinking of trying a "special" tank cleaner brand ??

The tank is not readily removable without surgery and is a good ss tank

Suggestions Appreciated

Regards
Art

Last edited by ArtJ; 01-28-2020 at 01:45 PM. Reason: add info
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 137.200.32.54
Old 01-28-2020, 02:59 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
You can hire a fuel polisher/tank cleaner truck that will show up with a high pressure pump
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-28-2020, 05:03 PM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Thanks Joe

Never heard of that before .
I assume the tank must be empty, Are they expensive?

Art
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 69.250.111.245
Old 01-29-2020, 08:03 AM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Art, Neil has a self-polishing system like you describe..I am sure he will post up a diagram for you when he checks in to the forum again.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 01-29-2020, 08:45 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Art, Neil has a self-polishing system like you describe..I am sure he will post up a diagram for you when he checks in to the forum again.
Here is a post with drawings from 7 years ago:
http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...54&postcount=6
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
sastanley (02-05-2020)
  #6   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-29-2020, 09:15 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Thanks Neil, guys

A couple of questions on the diagrams

1 I note there is no in line filter in either diagram shouldn't there be at least 1?
Also wouldn't it be desirable to replace filters after polishing?

2 Does this system actually clean a tank ? or just for prevention?

Best


Art
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 137.200.32.54
Old 01-29-2020, 09:26 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
Using a fuel pump to clean fuel works OK for preemptive cleaning. Once junk gets stuck on the tank walls, the low flow rate usually won't get it back off. There are usually a few "Fuel Polishing" services around that send a truck out to your boat. They use high speed pumps that will break up and suck out a lot more junk than your fuel pump will.
Their usual customers are diesel boat owners, so I would call and ask about gasoline.
I just took my tank home and cleaned it, which worked fine until I had to get the last of the soapy water out of it. The fill is not as a corner, so I was dancing around in the front yard with it over my head shaking it back and forth, which made my wife think I am even nuttier than usual
* just remembered, I used PineSol to clean an antique outboard tank and it worked pretty well
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-29-2020, 09:35 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Thanks Joe

I checked out a polishing company looks like they are more geared to
large industrial cleaning. For private boats, they offered just cleaning
stuff aka like something offered by companies like starbrite

Regards
Art
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 01-29-2020, 09:43 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Art, Joe, the system in not intended to remedy goo stuck to a tank's internal surfaces. It is intended to filter contaminants out of the fuel before that.

About the polishing filter, I've never had one relying instead on my primary filter to do the heavy lifting. I know, Moyer recommends one and those who want it will get no quarrel from me but the fact is with the single exception of water infiltration last year I've never had a fuel quality issue in the 15 years I've owned the boat. I do not use gas from the fuel dock, change my filter annually, [since last year's water incursion] replace my deck plate O rings annually, polish the tank contents annually, clean and rebuild the carburetor annually. Clean system = no problems.

And yes, polishing requires filter replacement as often as necessary. After polishing and at annual replacement I pour the filter contents into a glass container to inspect for contaminants. If any are observed polishing is repeated with a new filter.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-29-2020, 09:49 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Thanks Neil
Is the main filter you describe a Racor fuel water separator?

How long do you run the polishing before checking filter?

Best Art

Last edited by ArtJ; 01-29-2020 at 09:53 AM. Reason: add question
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 01-29-2020, 09:55 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
No, it is a cheap cartridge type filter with a spin-on element. I use Sierra 18-7945 water separating cartridges. With a full 12 gallon tank it takes 36 minutes to run the entire tank (3 mins./ gallon). I replace the filter cartridge immediately after a polishing exercise.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 01-29-2020 at 09:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
ArtJ (01-29-2020)
  #12   IP: 137.200.32.54
Old 01-29-2020, 12:55 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
I too use the cheap filters. I had enough of issues with Racors being expensive, rusting, being VERY hard to get apart, and being very hard to drain.
Easier and cheaper to use the disposable spin-on filters.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
ArtJ (01-29-2020)
  #13   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-30-2020, 07:26 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
How to sort thru in line secondary filters

I was also wondering how to know which of the Autoparts store small in line
filters perform best?
They do not have microns displayed? , if so which are best?

Thanks Art
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 01-30-2020, 08:21 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
MMI lists the micron specification for their small inline filter. It's all metal housing is also USCG compliant.
https://moyermarine.com/product/fuel...fpmp_07-1_473/
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 01-30-2020, 11:35 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
I use something like this. The cartridges are around $12-$15 or so and I usually change them out once per year. I drop them into a plastic bag when changing them and usually spill less gas or none at all, as compared to the Racor drain plug that gets gas all over Now we have gasohol that absorbs water, the traditional drain-the-water like a diesel system really no longer applies. If you get enough water in there to separate out, you have a very big mess on your hands. You need to NOT have it in there in the first place. 10 microns seems a common size and honestly it is a rare thing for there to be dirt or sand in the gas and I never have had enough of it to clog an entire filter. My dinghy and Whaler have the same filters, so my spares fit all three boats
Some anecdotal data regarding water: I once had a LOT of water from a bad filler O-ring. The Racor let it right on through, the alcohol-water goop would pass it. One of cheap filters did the opposite, it blocked everything once gooped up, gas, water, alcohol, and any combination thereof. An irate call to Racor yielded "Gasohol is a mess, no filter will fix it once contaminated with water". I warned someone who shall remain nameless that the water separators on their airplane would no longer work with car gas and sure enough one day water killed the engine. The plane was fine, it just needed better fuel.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by joe_db; 01-30-2020 at 11:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
ArtJ (01-30-2020)
  #16   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-30-2020, 11:49 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Joe, Neil

Does the filter fit the Racor top assembly or do they have a different

top assembly available?
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 137.103.82.227
Old 01-30-2020, 12:21 PM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
That filter is the "Mercury" size and does not fit any Racor top that I had. I replaced the whole thing.
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-30-2020, 01:36 PM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
I have seen the 18-7945 filters as low as $5.86 on line. Apparently, Sierra has a variety of different filters and caps. The cap like in your picture
(with 1st filter ) is around $35 total.

Best
Art
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 01-30-2020, 07:45 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
I'm not advocating it as the filter everyone should use. It was on the boat when I bought it and I liked the idea of regular canister and sealing gasket replacement so I stayed with it. Performance has been so good that I mounted an identical filter on my Zodiac inflatable for its 25 HP Yamaha 2 stroke, kept it when the Yamaha was replaced with a 20 HP Honda 4 stroke.

Same filter cartridge for both simplifying shelf inventory.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 01-31-2020, 09:03 AM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,177
Thanks: 221
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Smile

Maybe a good alternate option for MMI to carry this ?
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 01-31-2020, 09:26 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
I wouldn't go there Art. MMI thoroughly analyzes and tests their products to be what they feel is the best for our engines. If they recommend the Racor, you'll be hard pressed to find a better filter on your own.

As for me, I'm a cheap, scrounging S.O.B. so the filter that came with my boat, selected by the previous owner, will remain until it gives me a reason it shouldn't. One single failure attributable to its manufacture or design and it's over the side, a one strike policy with such things. Like I said in my earlier post, I don't advocate it for everyone. Just because mine is adequate does not make it optimal.

As an example of the above. I have three tired Oberdorfer pumps that I've rebuilt several times. The seals, shafts, impellers and gaskets are all replaceable but the body cavities are all worn which affects performance and is something I can't do anything about beyond hand facing the pump body (which I have done). There's the one strike so my engine has a brand new MMI 502 flange pump.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 137.200.32.54
Old 01-31-2020, 09:53 AM
joe_db's Avatar
joe_db joe_db is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 49
Thanked 1,026 Times in 721 Posts
OTOH I sent my Racor to the dumpster. It had MORE issues than the cheap filters and cost 3 times as much
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joe_db For This Useful Post:
ArtJ (01-31-2020)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine runs for a couple minutes, stops hard, no fuel flow pdecker Troubleshooting 30 05-28-2015 01:17 PM
Fuel Shutdown Issue gdasw Fuel System 17 06-20-2013 08:53 AM
Experience Cleaning a Dirty Fuel Tank in Place BobA Fuel System 16 09-21-2012 09:02 AM
Fuel Tank Cleaning S1lverfox Fuel System 2 09-18-2012 09:07 AM
Possible bad Facet fuel pump? TomG Fuel System 8 05-17-2011 05:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved