Need help asap

[hanleyclifford]

I wonder if anyone has actually started a 4 cylnder engine witha rope pull. The mechanical advantage is lame compared to the hand crank. If I were developing such a thing I'd include compresson relief valves on all 4 cylinders.

[sailingchance]

Going the rebild route...

So the specialist and I took everything apart and the armiture and coils are fukackta. We are going the rebuild route. We found a place in ohio that can ship us new coils and an armiture for $150 with shipping. Not bad.

Something I discovered through all of this. The part number of my starter: MZ4153 came out of the factory as a 6v starter. Now it may have been rebuilt as a 12v at some point in the last 50 years but since the armiture is the same and my coils look like einsteins hair, we cant tell.

The 12v version is MBG 4129. The only difference being the brushes and field coils. The engine start(ed) smooth and he said the I could have potentially run a 6v starter on a 12v system for a long time (but with failure always looking). Who knows.

Money spent. Knowledge gained. Now... Given all this talk of hand cranking, I am trying to conceive of the best way to do this (for my own future safety). I can get to the back in a pinch if necesary. How would I turn the engine off if cranked by hand? Starve the fuel?

Jason

[sailingchance]

Also, anyone got a photo of a jury rigged socket? just want to see the grooves.

Thanks, J

[lat 64]

Jason,
The key switch will turn off the ignition. Engine stops. The starter motor circuit can be thought of separately. First you energize the ignition with the key switch, then crank it over with the starter or any other way to crank it.
When a stick-shift car loses the starter, sometimes the cranking can be done by pushing the car in gear to turn the engine over. This is the concept of emergency or hand starting we are toying with.

There are some 'tube vids somewhere that show a few a-4s being started like this with a hand crank.
You have the disadvantage of the v-drive, so engineering this emergency starter is problematic.

I hope we are not confusing the current repair goat rope you have with our pie-in-the-sky ideas. I often get sidetracked.

Hanley,
I have a '56 30-hp Evinrude twin out back that is a beast to pull on. I have never started it . I wonder if that's why it still is in such good shape? Maybe no one else could either.

Next up:
a kick starter!

R

[sailingchance]

Jason,
The key switch will turn off the ignition. Engine stops. The starter motor circuit can be thought of separately. First you energize the ignition with the key switch, then crank it over with the starter or any other way to crank it.
When a stick-shift car loses the starter, sometimes the cranking can be done by pushing the car in gear to turn the engine over. This is the concept of emergency or hand starting we are toying with.

There are some 'tube vids somewhere that show a few a-4s being started like this with a hand crank.
You have the disadvantage of the v-drive, so engineering this emergency starter is problematic.

I hope we are not confusing the current repair goat rope you have with our pie-in-the-sky ideas. I often get sidetracked.

Hanley,
I have a '56 30-hp Evinrude twin out back that is a beast to pull on. I have never started it . I wonder if that's why it still is in such good shape? Maybe no one else could either.

Next up:
a kick starter!

R

Not confused about that. I can tell things are getting a bit C3PO. That said, I can get access to it (with some difficulty) so I am thinking about HOW to do this for the future in a pinch. Would a pull cord system work off of some blocks/pulleys? Doubtful, but I am going to explore it. After watching the video, it didnt seem like it took much to crank it over. 1/2 a revolution.

In the meantime, I want to see what the open socket part looks like so I can make one and at least move my boat. lol

[lat 64]

Okay, Just wanted to make sure you got good info.
Have to be a taxi for teenagers now. I'm off to races. literally:

http://www.arcticwintergames.org

Good luck,

Russ

[romantic comedy]

Russ, have you ever started a larger outboard by rope. We raced mercury 4 cylinders that we hand started. Called the 4-40, or 40-4. That was 4 cylinder, 40 cubic inches.

There was a racing engine called an ELTO 4 -60. 4 cylinder, 60 cubic inches. Long time ago, they were made. You can start them by hand too.

I have a 1969 Johnson 40 hp 2 cylinder that starts with the simplex like you showed on the Atomic Four.

I started my Atomic Four by rope. Only did it for fun, then removed the plate, for some reason. I can get right to my engine, in the middle of the cabin. It is a direct pull at the flywheel.

Jason, in your case, I think you would need to turn the pull direction. That might make it too hard to do by hand.

Jason, we used to use 6 volt starters on VWs that were converted to 12 volts. They worked great. The secret was to not crank for extended periods.

[Whippet]

hand crank

Our sponsor sells hand crank. I bought it for emergency starting but have never had the pleasure of trying. (get nervous when people talk about broken thumbs in the model T days).

Apparently it is designed to release when the beast fires up. I have used it many times to turn the cylinders when winterizing etc so i dont regret the $50+

A better view is in the online catalog (misc parts) --

BTW, glad you are safe. I was nervous as a cat following your saga.

[Sony2000]

A spark plug socket can be easily modified to start an Atomic 4. This is the general idea. The Bahamians are good at making do.

[ndutton]

Please remember guys, this is a V drive. No flywheel access for hand starting.
Reference: post #7

[Sony2000]

Not confused about that. I can tell things are getting a bit C3PO. That said, I can get access to it (with some difficulty) so I am thinking about HOW to do this for the future in a pinch. Would a pull cord system work off of some blocks/pulleys? Doubtful, but I am going to explore it. After watching the video, it didnt seem like it took much to crank it over. 1/2 a revolution.

In the meantime, I want to see what the open socket part looks like so I can make one and at least move my boat. lol

The Atomic is angled up on 10 degrees, giving room for cranking. If there is a bulkhead there, put a hole through it for a shaft to the modified spark plug socket.

[msauntry]

With reverse drive, could you mount PTO pulley that stays there permanently and then just wrap a cord around it when necessary to pull start?

[nyvoyager]

right angle cordless?

just wondering (and unfortunately it doesn't apply to Jason's v drive).
some folks use a cordless Milwaukee drill fitted with a hex (otherwise known as a winch mate) to grind away.
anyone know if this would have a enough torque to spin an A4?
danger aspect aside, the socket part seems easy enough

[marthur]

I don't know about a cordless drill. My dewalt is rated at 450 in-lbs (38 ft lbs) of torque and I have used it to turn over a few outboards with starting issues. On the other hand, a cordless impact wrench would do the job and then some. It would also be handy for stuck fasteners

[sailingchance]

Awesome drawing. I will try to make that tonight. I have all the starter parts ordered so I have 10 days to sit an play while in SPanish wells. I am in "outboard city" So I am actually going to try and see if I can make a pull start work.

I do have room to hand crank, kinda, sorta, barely, as a circus midget.