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  #1   IP: 184.151.36.176
Old 06-21-2018, 02:33 PM
Jimmy Jimmy is offline
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Pros and Cons of Starter Button vs. Keyed Switch

Getting around to building my dream instrument panel. I have acquired the gauges, and am planning the switches. 4 rocker switches for navigation/ steaming/ deck lights, plus a spare.
I am wrestling with a typical keyed ignition vs. a run toggle switch and start button.
Would appreciate any feedback, insight from others that have travelled this path before.
Bonus query - has anyone ever played with the idea of " electronic choke?". Think relay and servo....hmmm

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Old 06-21-2018, 03:29 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Jimmy, your choice entirely. Key switches do go bad and toggle switches get bumped and/or not turned off. Both work fine. The key switch may add a bit of security though.

As far as a servo or solenoid choke actuator I would not advise it. Often times when things go awry the A-4 can be kept running with a degree of choke application.

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Old 06-21-2018, 06:17 PM
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After multiple failures (moisture I think) I gave up on a keyswitch and went with a booted toggle for ignition and a booted pushbutton for the starter. Going this direction you have a variety of amperage ratings available, the boots protect against moisture incursion and are also available in different colors for easy identification.

Absentmindedly leaving the ignition on is a risk with both a keyswitch and a toggle but an alarm system solves that.

I'd like to see your plan for your dream panel and when it's done, the finished product.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:00 PM
Jimmy Jimmy is offline
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Dave - I completely agree with you comments regarding automatic choke....never thought of that, but was thinking more of the cosmetics.
Neil - I will take a few pics along the way, and as soon as I have successfully pulled my panel from the mold, I'll start posting. I am working with a female mold made of wood / waxed/ layed up with epoxy and cloth. Finished product with need minor fairing and paint. No gel coat.

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Old 06-21-2018, 07:40 PM
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Electric Choke

Hi Jimmy, I recently made a new instrument panel and rather than run the 15'+ of manual choke cable, I went with an electric unit. It is made from a 12v. door lock actuator and works like a choke on an outboard motor. It's either open or closed, no halfway. My engine starts with very little "choke help" so it has worked well for me.
Tom
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:02 PM
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Pictures of Tom's choke actuator
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:10 PM
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Interesting idea, but it seems to me that in the winter time, the choke needs to be "eased off" instead of abruptly opened. FWIW, my "solution" was to leave the choke knob off the new panel. The old cable just wouldn't reach the new position, so the knob got ("temporarily") installed in a nook in the galley wall.
Hey, it's an anti-theft mechanism, since I don't have a key any more!
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:22 PM
thatch thatch is online now
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As I said, it functions much like an outboard choke. The starting goes something like this. When the engine is cold I start with about 1/4 throttle, begin cranking the engine and then close the choke. When it fires (normally within 2 seconds), I leave the choke closed until the engine starts to stumble. I then release the choke button. If it begins to die, I push the choke button and repeat the process if necessary. Ignition timing and carb condition play a big part in how an A4 will start.
Tom
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:45 PM
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As to the nav lights, here’s what I did: one switch/breaker turns ‘nav lights’ on or off. Power to the nav lights is split downstream of the breaker at a relay, triggered by the engine ignition. This means that with ignition off, it’s a sailboat; and power runs to a masthead tricolor. With ignition on, it’s a motorboat, and power runs instead to deck-level running lights, plus a steaming light. The masthead unit has the ability to be switched from tricolor to anchor light, which is another switch; and also (by powering both the tricolor and anchor lights simultaneously) to function as a strobe. So far it seems to working exactly as planned.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:16 PM
Wrsteinesq Wrsteinesq is offline
 
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As to the starter switch question, I put an ignition switch (not keyed) just inside the companionway. The starter button is inside a cockpit locker. That way neither is exposed to being kicked, etc., in the cockpit.
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Old 06-22-2018, 06:20 AM
sdemore sdemore is offline
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C&C didn't use a key on mine and when I checked to see why, I found that it really didn't provide any additional security. You have to open and enter the boat to turn the battery switch on anyway, and if a criminal can do that, bypassing a switch located right next to the locker door, wouldn't be much of a challenge.
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Pictures of Tom's choke actuator
What model door lock actuator is that? That looks way cool
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:19 PM
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Joe, I picked it up from a place called All Electronics in Van Nuys Calif. They are new surplus, but they have them on an ongoing basis. No car or model info is given but they have plenty of pull to close the choke. I don't recall the price, but they are pretty cheap.
Tom
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:56 PM
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There is always a variety of small motors and actuators like that available at "American Science & Surplus." I have trained myself to stop looking at their circulars, because I'm trying to declutter, not accumulate!
12V power locks currently $4.50

Last edited by toddster; 06-22-2018 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:21 PM
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I like having an ignition switch and a booted starter button, so that I can turn the engine over without ignition. I have had both go bad and be replaced. Both are exposed to the elements,thieves, and inquisitive toddlers, but access is very good. Sometimes you need to start the engine right now. Thieves are not an issue with this boat in this place, so a toggle would be fine. I wouldn't mind a booted toggle instead of a key switch, but a key switch is a little harder to turn off accidentally than a toggle. I have had the key broken off in the switch by someone stepping on it, turning off the engine and making any key or small screwdriver into an ignition key with partial insertion. What I envision is a toggle that lights when it's on, but has a transparent cover to resist accidental switching, and a boot to resist moisture. Does such a thing exist?
I have no problem pulling a cable to close the choke. On my boat the carb is about 4 feet from the dash.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capnward View Post
What I envision is a toggle that lights when it's on, but has a transparent cover to resist accidental switching, and a boot to resist moisture. Does such a thing exist?
Welllllll...... sorta.
I have an ignition toggle that lights and is protected from moisture and getting kicked by the cool acrylic cover that came with my MMI panel.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:44 PM
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One item on Jerry's dash, that might otherwise go unnoticed, is his choice to use a vacuum gauge rather than a tach. While a tach will tell you "how fast" you are spinning the engine, a vacuum gauge will tell you "how hard" the engine is working.
Tom
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:19 AM
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I have a pull switch for ignition and push button for start. Has worked flawlessly for years now. Don't worry about someone taking the boat at all.

As for security, well I'm fortunate enough to be in a yacht club that is actually on a military base....not much happens here that someone isn't going to see. Theft is not a big issue at all. The club was robbed of things we didn't know went missing a number of years back. I caught the two doing it one evening when I went to check the boat during a storm...apparently they came when they figured no one was around! After the two were charged, the MP's then put surveillance on them. 2 weeks later they found the stash... stolen outboards, fenders etc, you name it in one of the perps garages. We got it all back and both did time. Since then, no issues. I don't lock the boat and most don't...they don't come in our yacht club through he gates or by water without catching someone's attention.
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:22 AM
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Re: keyswitch as security, I have zero concerns with my toggle switch ignition. Just to get the engine to run a nogoodnik would have to perform three additional actions and if they figured that out, a fourth to silence the EWDS and get more than 100 yards away.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatch View Post
While a tach will tell you "how fast" you are spinning the engine, a vacuum gauge will tell you "how hard" the engine is working.
Since I like gauges so much I also have a big TACH mounted where the old Depth Gauge used to be.
Best of both worlds.


Ditto on the security concerns. No issue where I am.
And, like Neil, you'd have to figure out a couple of other things before you'd even get the engine to start.
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Last edited by roadnsky; 06-23-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:47 AM
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I think a large used sailboat is about the last thing on the planet anyone wants to steal
Want to watch something get stolen, park a nice fishing boat with a nice outboard someplace dark and it won't last out the week.
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