Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Troubleshooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-29-2018, 09:12 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Engine stalling

My engine is stalling and just in time for Canada's long weekend.

It seems to sputter and die and is very hard to restart. It seems to happen when it is both hot or cold. I find it happens under load as it will happily idle for hours.

I have an electric ignition and recently replaced my starter coil.
New spark plugs gaped at 40.
New gas and polishing filters in the spring.

I do not have a fuel pressure gauge, but I can install one tomorrow. Best I can find locally is this one: LINK


Thinking I could also pull and clean my carb. I have the gaskets and the how-to video from MMI. One question... the carb I have does not have the 5th bolt, but the gasket I have does. Picture link.

Any other troubleshooting ideas?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 207.118.20.35
Old 06-30-2018, 01:25 AM
capnward's Avatar
capnward capnward is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deer Harbor WA
Posts: 335
Thanks: 41
Thanked 147 Times in 107 Posts
I bet if you clean the carb according to the video, taking particular care to remove any obstructions in the idle jet, the main jet, and the idle ports in the throat of the carb, that will be the fix. Your 'sputtering under load" problem sounds like something got past the filters, so you may want to replace the polishing filters. You can probably get away with using the new gasket with the old carb. Make sure it's tight. Cleaning the carb is in my experience the usual remedy. I often do it in the spring before starting the engine, to be pro-active.You will become quick and skillful at it. Also check for water in the bottom of the water separator filter. Your 'new gas' may have issues. A fuel pressure gauge is a good idea. I hope you get her running for the long weekend.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to capnward For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018)
  #3   IP: 72.194.220.204
Old 06-30-2018, 01:37 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Try loosing the fuel fill cap. There may be a blockage in the tank vent.
When the engine starts running rough does closing the choke make it run better?

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JOHN COOKSON For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018)
  #4   IP: 108.172.150.97
Old 06-30-2018, 02:05 AM
Marty Levenson Marty Levenson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bowen Island, BC
Posts: 679
Thanks: 91
Thanked 42 Times in 36 Posts
stirred up?

I agree with the above, and wonder if stalling under load is after a rough sea? If so could have to do with stirred up sediment.

Happy Canada Day!
__________________
Marty
1967 Tartan 27
Bowen Island, BC

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Marty Levenson For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018)
  #5   IP: 24.224.194.51
Old 06-30-2018, 06:35 AM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Hi Graham.

I helped a guy with one of those a couple of weeks back. Water in fuel. So removed and cleaned the carb, sucked out the tank with gas line hoses with the bulb. That went into Jerry Cans...you can take a bit from the bottom of the tank first and you will know right away if you have garbage gas.

So, cleaned carb, changed filters, drained tank, sloshed some methol hydrated around the tank. Had a couple of guys stand on the port side of the boat to get the fluid to the low side and pumped it dry...when the last of the fluid looks clean you are good. New non ethanol gas...fire it up.

It ran poorly for a minute or so until the lines cleared then ran perfect. The person in the above case didn't put the cap on the tank tight. I gave him a new seal. Haven't heard anything since...must be good.

From start to finish, with him helping, total time was just under 2 hours.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mo For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018), Whippet (06-30-2018)
  #6   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-30-2018, 08:55 AM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanks for the quick help everyone! I'm going to head down to the boat and follow the advice you all gave me. I'll report back with my progress
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-30-2018, 08:58 AM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
Try loosing the fuel fill cap. There may be a blockage in the tank vent.
When the engine starts running rough does closing the choke make it run better?

TRUE GRIT
I usually have to pull the choke out all the way... engine starts... immediately push it back in all the way.

Currently (as this problem occurred), I have to pull it out 1/2 way... engine starts... immediately push it back in all the way. Full choke out and the engine will not start.
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-30-2018, 08:59 AM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Levenson View Post
I agree with the above, and wonder if stalling under load is after a rough sea? If so could have to do with stirred up sediment.

Happy Canada Day!
Thanks & no it happened yesterday under flat seas.
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 06-30-2018, 09:05 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
If the problem persists after following the advice that has been offered, good troubleshooting practice is to determine if the issue is fuel or spark related which as far as I can tell has not been done. Immediately upon shut down or during a no-start episode pull the large coil wire out of the center of the coil, with insulated pliers or a rubber gloved hand hold its end 1/4" from a head bolt and have a helper crank the engine. Look for a snappy blue-white spark.

Good quality spark = yes, the problem is likely fuel related
Spark = no or weak, pursue ignition issues and we have quite a bit of experience in that area

Be sure to keep the raw water intake thru hull valve closed during cranking until the engine starts.

edit: please clarify "starter coil"
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 06-30-2018 at 12:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
Dave Neptune (06-30-2018), Graham (06-30-2018)
  #10   IP: 155.186.126.158
Old 06-30-2018, 09:57 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Graham, get the pressure gage installed. Then when she stalls you can check for blue spark~done. Then you can look to the fuel side. Check for water in the fuel by draining some fuel from the bottom of the carb AND/OR checking the fuel separator. The gage would of already let you know if it was pressure related, so if you have adequate fuel pressure we now know it is at he end of the fuel hose~the carburetor. About two hours max.

I'm betting the carb is way to rich as she starts easy without full choke!!!!!!!! Water in the fuel will require a great deal of choking when cold in most cases.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018)
  #11   IP: 24.114.50.159
Old 06-30-2018, 12:21 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
thanks, everyone. Questions... is they a starting point for adjusting the fuel mixture?

What fuel pressure is too high or low?

thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 155.186.126.158
Old 06-30-2018, 12:53 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Pressure 1 1/2 ~ 4 is just fine. The adjusting screw adjuxts the AIR so in is rich and out is lean. Most A-4's like it somewhere around 1 1/2 turns off the seat as a starting point.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018), ndutton (06-30-2018)
  #13   IP: 208.93.185.23
Old 06-30-2018, 03:51 PM
zellerj zellerj is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 304
Thanks: 5
Thanked 115 Times in 69 Posts
Exhaust hose collapsed?

Could also be a partially blocked exhaust that allows an idle but bogs down and stalls with higher rpms. Test is pretty smelly and wet, but pull the exhaust hose off at the water lift or stand pipe and see if it will more easily achieve higher revolutions per minute.
__________________
Jim Zeller
1982 Catalina 30
Kelleys Island, Ohio
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to zellerj For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018)
  #14   IP: 24.224.194.51
Old 06-30-2018, 06:26 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Graham, did you get at that today ... if so how did you make out with it?
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-30-2018, 08:18 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo View Post
Graham, did you get at that today ... if so how did you make out with it?
I replaced the electric fuel pump and the fuel filter. Then I and pulled the carb and gave it a good cleaning. I'm waiting for the heat to break before I go down and reinstall the carb.

I also installed a fuel pressure gauge!

I'll update with more details after it's all back together. I'm optimistic
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-30-2018, 08:19 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zellerj View Post
Could also be a partially blocked exhaust that allows an idle but bogs down and stalls with higher rpms. Test is pretty smelly and wet, but pull the exhaust hose off at the water lift or stand pipe and see if it will more easily achieve higher revolutions per minute.
Thanks for the suggestion. I think the exhaust is ok, I have really good flow out the tailpipe.
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 24.224.194.51
Old 06-30-2018, 08:30 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I replaced the electric fuel pump and the fuel filter. Then I and pulled the carb and gave it a good cleaning. I'm waiting for the heat to break before I go down and reinstall the carb.

I also installed a fuel pressure gauge!

I'll update with more details after it's all back together. I'm optimistic
Yeah, I know you guys had about 40 C. We had 39...Kids didn't want to go out today so we stayed home in the AC...watched movies. Tomorrow night we will all go out for the fireworks. If it runs badly at first then gets better, then worse again you know you have overwhelmed the filtering system. Generally if there's enough water to keep the engine stalling the tank needs to be drained. By the way, I switched gas supply...SHELL V power...not even a sputter. One of the station managers told me that Shell insists on regular filter changed on their tanks regardless of dip tests for water...I find it awesome and my cars run better on it as well. My Subaru gets 75 km more per tank on it.
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.

Last edited by Mo; 06-30-2018 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mo For This Useful Post:
Graham (06-30-2018)
  #18   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 06-30-2018, 10:57 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Got it all back together. Carb is cleaned and I'm optimistic I've solved my problem. I noticed the fuel pressure gauge went from 1.5 to 3.5 after I installed the clean carb. That make any sense?

Anyway... I think I'm all set to go for Canada day tomorrow. Thanks for all the help! If I could buy you all a beer, I would

-Graham
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 70.25.72.43
Old 07-01-2018, 10:18 AM
Cat27rampage Cat27rampage is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Graham
I'm having very similar issues with my engine. We were out 2 weeks ago in great sailing conditions but the waves obviously stirred something up and the engine wouldn't start. Long story short im still stranded at the club but the beer is cold. Not having much mechanical experience I'm choked up about where to start. Clean carb....install fuel pressure gauge.....flush gas tank..... the engine purrs like a happy kitty in my slip though.
If anyone has a suggestion please let me know. Even the name of a reliable mechanic in the gta would be good....one that shows up!
Alister
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 71.222.3.150
Old 07-01-2018, 12:13 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
...It seems to sputter and die and is very hard to restart. It seems to happen when it is both hot or cold. I find it happens under load as it will happily idle for hours.

New spark plugs gaped at 40
Something that stood out to me... you changed the plugs?
Are you SURE that you replaced the plug wires in the correct firing order?

Idle ok but stalling under power would be a classic symptom.
__________________
-Jerry

'Lone Ranger'

1978 RANGER 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to roadnsky For This Useful Post:
Administrator (07-01-2018)
  #21   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 07-01-2018, 07:31 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat27rampage View Post
Graham
I'm having very similar issues with my engine. We were out 2 weeks ago in great sailing conditions but the waves obviously stirred something up and the engine wouldn't start. Long story short im still stranded at the club but the beer is cold. Not having much mechanical experience I'm choked up about where to start. Clean carb....install fuel pressure gauge.....flush gas tank..... the engine purrs like a happy kitty in my slip though.
If anyone has a suggestion please let me know. Even the name of a reliable mechanic in the gta would be good....one that shows up!
Alister

Mark at WestPort Marine Supply is a great guy and has lots of Atomic 4 experience. He's busy but give him a call. https://westportmarinesupply.business.site/

Where is your boat?
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 07-01-2018, 07:46 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Something that stood out to me... you changed the plugs?
Are you SURE that you replaced the plug wires in the correct firing order?

Idle ok but stalling under power would be a classic symptom.
Thanks for this - yes I'm sure
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Graham For This Useful Post:
Administrator (07-01-2018)
  #23   IP: 108.168.37.23
Old 07-01-2018, 07:48 PM
Graham's Avatar
Graham Graham is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 85
Thanks: 75
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Talking

Had the boat our for a fun Canada Day. She's running great now
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bent push rods in new engine with 10 hours on it Frank Troubleshooting 3 09-14-2010 02:23 AM
Removing the engine from your boat Don Moyer General Interest 13 06-27-2008 11:06 AM
Engine Stalling HarryB Troubleshooting 9 10-14-2007 05:55 AM
Engine Stalling HarryB Troubleshooting 0 10-08-2007 01:03 PM
Engine stalling Bob N Fuel System 3 10-09-2006 05:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved