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  #151   IP: 165.225.38.121
Old 05-12-2020, 02:05 PM
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This is status of tuning situation... very rough

https://youtu.be/YibRPR9ARRg
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A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:31 PM
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Hello Surcouf.

I recall 3 gauges in one of your earlier photos, but I don't think I saw a tachometer. Do you know what rpm you are idling at?

jack.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:41 PM
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Hello Surcouf.

I recall 3 gauges in one of your earlier photos, but I don't think I saw a tachometer. Do you know what rpm you are idling at?

jack.
no I do not, the middle one (not connected in voltage). I would have used a gun from the office, but with Covid situation, I have not been able to get it. At this point, this engine is not even idling yet. I am "holding it" playing with choke and gas levers for now.
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Old 05-12-2020, 06:02 PM
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It's hard for me to judge RPM from sound alone, but if I had to guess I would say your idle RPM are low. Below is a link to my A4 right after its rebuild. It was idling at about 750 according to my tach gun. MM's recommended idle is in the 600-1000 range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKvHFCEKO-w

jack.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
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This is status of tuning situation... very rough

https://youtu.be/YibRPR9ARRg
That sound is music to my ears. Not too rough imo.
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Old 05-13-2020, 09:40 AM
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I agree with the others. The idle RPMs sound too low. Try increasing the setting of the idle stop screw on the throttle lever.

Although others have reported idle as low as 600 RPM, mine sits at about 850-900.

If you check the carb, be absolute sure that all the idle passages are clear. Simply spraying carb cleaner through them won't cut it. You must physically "ream" each one with a small wire. The center wire from a bread tie is just the right size and stiffness for this job. In addition to the idle jet, there are three small openings in the throat that straddle the throttle plate when closed.
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Old 05-13-2020, 01:34 PM
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PCV?

One element that has a direct affect on the idle capabilities of an A4 is whether or not it has a PCV system. If a relatively healthy A4 has a clean carb and has been set to factory ignition specs, I have found that they will idle as low as 500 rpm's without stalling when going in and out of gear. A4s with PCV valves normally seem to want to idle in the 700 or higher range.
Tom
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:28 PM
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Old 05-13-2020, 11:19 PM
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Tchatch, no PCV system here (just the usual bent plastic tube coming in front of the flame arrest or at the suction of the carburetor

One question for you guys: I found that at the bottom of my Moyer Marine parts box, and I am not sure if that comes from MM, or is just another lost item from my general mess.... any idea what this is??
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Old 05-16-2020, 03:04 PM
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- It: «*hey you*!!!*»
- me: «*who is talking?*»
- it*: «*it is me of course, Bomby your engine!!
- me: «*OK it is so late I am starting to hear voices...*»
- it: «*stop being stupid... what are you doing wrenching me at 1AM? «*
- me:*«*you not running well, not idling. So I am trying to troubleshoot and cure you*»
- it: «*and what have you done?*»
- me: «*compression, Check. Sparks, check; timing, check. Fuel, just overhauled the carburetor, check. Exhaust not clogged, check. Timing, check. What is left???*»
- it: «*I would like to sleep too, so the best is to help you... what is written on my side? «*
- me: «*?????*»
- it: «* what is written on my side? In the casting!!!*»
- me: «*your date of birth? We are both from the same year you know*»
-it:*«*no idiot, above that!!!*»
- me: «* firing order 1-2-****!!!!-4-3...***** ****!!! I can’t have done that mistake «*...
And yes ...
- it:*«*and suddenly he gets it... not the brightest bulb of the block this owner!!*»

And now it purrs like a kitten!!!
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Old 05-16-2020, 04:43 PM
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Firing order quiz

If you don't already know why the firing order is 1243, do a little research on the "flat crankshaft" and impress your friends on the dock. Almost everyone has made the firing order mistake at least once.
Tom
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Old 05-16-2020, 05:24 PM
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:28 PM
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... regardless how we got here, this is still a "WOO-HOO!" moment.

Congrats!! May Bomby purr for many years.
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Old 05-17-2020, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
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... regardless how we got here, this is still a "WOO-HOO!" moment.

Congrats!! May Bomby purr for many years.
+1 WOO-HOO!!!
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Old 05-17-2020, 06:13 PM
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Sorry I have to vent here... who is the absolutely stupid electrical engineer who designed the Catalina 27 electrical circuit and decided to implement a 12 feet harness with trailer-type plugs? What was the goal? Move the engine to the dock to test bench it???
2 broken pins on my harness clogged with corrosion... time to re-wire all that!!

3 of those 8 connectors were unused following decades of modifications.

The only positive aspect of that harness is that I do not need to buy any cable to re-wire properly all that!!!
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Old 05-17-2020, 07:19 PM
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We have always - - admittedly incorrectly - - assigned the responsibility for those plugs to Catalina but the cold, hard fact is they are an original Universal/Westerbeke monstrosity. Here is a drawing from the Universal/Westerbeke Installation and Maintenance Manual, page 18, that clearly shows the 8 pin plugs at the engine and instrument panel with the extension harness connecting the two together.

Name:  Wiring Diagram from Universal.jpg
Views: 520
Size:  94.8 KB

The corrective action is to get rid of the plugs by either butt splicing the wires together, adding screw down terminal strips in place of the plugs or creating an entirely new harness of your own minimizing terminations. As for the latter, it's the most work but in my opinion produces the best result especially considering your engine wiring is at least 40 years old. Here is what can be achieved. Yes, that is the same engine in the same boat.

Name:  Ezra's before and after pictures.jpg
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-17-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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  #166   IP: 174.192.43.124
Old 05-17-2020, 07:47 PM
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Thank you Neil.
I am going to te-wife point to point, those plugs are already gone. Hopefully I took enough notes; but let’s be honest, this is pretty simple system at the end of the day. But no way I make it look as nice as the one in your picture.
I have order one of those «*common bus bar*» for the grounds. There were probably 10 cables bolted to the flywheel cover.

Thank you!!
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Old 05-17-2020, 07:53 PM
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So on the to-do list before being able to put the boat back in the water:
- shaft packing. First time for me, went OK.
- the exhaust discharge flex pipe... this is another story. I was thinking of leaving the existing one, saving a few bucks, and let the next owner take care of that.... but honestly with the engine out, it was a unique occasion to do so, as access to the «*end of the mine*» is a nightmare with the engine in place in a Catalina 27. So after 1 hour of crawling back and forth to gather more tools, of swearing, sweating, cramping and suffering, the bas**** is out. And it is not pretty: this flex pipe was completely collapsed the last 5 inches before the hull pass-trough. A serious restriction for exhaust flow. Glad I decided to tackle that one.
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Thank you Neil.
I am going to re-wire point to point, those plugs are already gone. Hopefully I took enough notes; but let’s be honest, this is pretty simple system at the end of the day. But no way I make it look as nice as the one in your picture.
Don't sell yourself short. I believe in my heart that you and anyone else on this forum can achieve a similar result with a little care and planning. The pictured boat was a Cal 29 owned by forum member Ezra Kortz and with the help of another member the rewire took only a single day's work which included a very nice lunch break.

Having everything on hand is a huge factor toward success. String the wires into a harness* with ample length, enclose it in wire loom, lace it into the boat training the wire ends gracefully to their destinations and connect the ends. Have a variety of end terminals, shrink tube, soldering iron and solder (if you like) and Ty-wraps handy and enjoy the day.

* I like to use a 2x8 plank as a work surface to pre-assemble the harness. Using nails or screws as anchoring posts start at one end and identify it on the plank as Instrument Panel with a Sharpie, then do the same at various lengths for the starter, coil, alternator, water and oil senders. Do the wire loom encasement on the plank too. Don't skimp on wire, it is better to throw 2 feet away than be an inch too short.
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:13 AM
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Don't sell yourself short. I believe in my heart that you and anyone else on this forum can achieve a similar result with a little care and planning. The pictured boat was a Cal 29 owned by forum member Ezra Kortz and with the help of another member the rewire took only a single day's work which included a very nice lunch break.
Thank you!! but the race is now on, between the coming week-end and me. Not sure if the chances are very high for me to combine a 5 days working week, an engine currently sitting in my garage and not yet fully benched, an electrical system to be partially re-done and the desire to sail for Memorial Day. All bets are off!
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Last edited by Surcouf; 05-18-2020 at 08:23 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:34 PM
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Here's How I Rewired My CAT 27*

From the cable. There was plenty of wire in the coil of wire under the cockpit to make the cable. Temporally tape the cable under the starboard side of the cockpit sole. Adjust and cut the wire lengths, remove the cable and crimp, solder, heat shrink the end connectors, reinstall the cable permanently and hook everything up.

For the oil pressure gauge I did not include the wire in the cable. I didn't want a wire across the top of engine where I might snag it with tool. Instead I ran it along the top of the cockpit locker to the gauge. Held the wire in place with tape every foot or so then put silicon adhesive between the tape and took the tape off the next day.

It took me a bit more than a day to do all this.

ex TRUE GRIT

*hull #4446 built in 1979
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:22 PM
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Congrats on getting her running. If you really just want to get moving for Memorial Day, I'd cut the plugs off and butt splice the existing wires..quickest and cheapest. However, I bet you will find some corrosion creeping up the wires, so hopefully you'll have enough length to get good contact.

Another inspirational pic, here is my re-wire. I did as you were thinking as well..the port terminals are ALL ground, and the stbd with colors is the engine harness. Not quite as neat as Neil's work..his standards are high!
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:57 PM
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So:
- 750 rpm idle
- oil pressure around 35 psi at idle, 40rpm at a higher speed
- compression 95-100-100-105

A4 final test
https://youtu.be/vIKsUPqOUao

Now disassembly and in the boat tomorrow or Friday. No pressure for Memorial Day...
Thank you to all Afourians for your help. Would not have been possible without you.

One question I need to ask, because English is not my first language: what does «*Afourian*» mean??
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
One question I need to ask, because English is not my first language: what does «*Afourian*» mean??
I made it up: Members of the fraternity/sorority who "love" their Atomic 4's. You register as a forum member. You're an Afourian.

I made up the MVP stuff, too.

Bill
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:15 PM
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One question I need to ask, because English is not my first language: what does «*Afourian*» mean??
A person stubborn enough and crazy enough to keep a circa 1955 gasoline engine that most would consider obsolete in top running condition in a world full of diesel sailboats... because it's cool.
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:15 PM
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I've always been interested in the evolution of this little motor, so I guess that makes me a "Californian, Afourian, Historian". Bada,Boom.
Tom
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