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Old 03-22-2015, 09:22 PM
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Riser material - latest wisdom

I was so happy my engine fired right up last weekend. This weekend I leaned on the exhaust pipe and the end of the riser broke right off - rusted to pieces
I can make another one from Home Depot black iron, but I am getting the idea that the quality of said iron goes down every time I do this exercise
So besides for the tried, true, and cheap way out, I have:
1. Brass. Seems to violate some USCG/ABYC standard. Nut sure about longevity.
2. Stainless. This will cost a bit more. It might last forever and then again I think someone got 5 years out of stainless before it corroded apart. Any ideas on 304 vs. 316?
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:31 PM
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There are many, many posts in this website on making a new exhaust system - AFAIAC this is a place where it's penny wise-pound foolish.

MMI has a number of cost effective solutions to the exhaust rebuild issue...I would use them if I were you.

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  #3   IP: 70.110.28.136
Old 03-23-2015, 06:33 AM
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I did mine out of stainless. McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) has the pipe and fittings at the best price I've found for stainless. And since they're in NJ, here on the east coast we get very rapid delivery times.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:02 AM
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That sucks, Joe.

How many years have you been getting out of black iron pipe?
What is the typical lifespan among A-4 enthusiasts?

I've owned my boat for closing in on 4 years. I'm sure the exhaust is many years older, but the boat was also on the hard, winterized with fresh water for some years before I bought it.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:32 AM
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I think I am running around 4-5 years.

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Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
That sucks, Joe.

How many years have you been getting out of black iron pipe?
What is the typical lifespan among A-4 enthusiasts?

I've owned my boat for closing in on 4 years. I'm sure the exhaust is many years older, but the boat was also on the hard, winterized with fresh water for some years before I bought it.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:39 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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FWIW, I am on my 4th exhaust now at 31 years. That is the one it came with and the 3 I have cobbled. One galvanized and 2 black pipe. The one running is on it's third year now.

Dave Neptune
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:55 AM
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Ok, thanks. This will help me to not be too surprised when mine fails.

I don't have the vertical standpipe that you guys seem to have.
I just have a short, black iron elbow bolted to the exhaust manifold.

I *think* I get away with this, because the exhaust manifold is above the waterline (and the exhaust port on the transom is definitely above the water.)
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Old 03-23-2015, 10:28 AM
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If MM made something that fit my boat, I would buy it

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Originally Posted by 67c&ccorv View Post
There are many, many posts in this website on making a new exhaust system - AFAIAC this is a place where it's penny wise-pound foolish.

MMI has a number of cost effective solutions to the exhaust rebuild issue...I would use them if I were you.

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Old 03-23-2015, 10:32 AM
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Traditionally the risers were failing on the downside where the water teed in. The water hitting the far side of the pipe would eventually eat it away. I redesigned the riser to inject at the top with an internal pipe aiming down and that seemed to fix that. Now what died was the very bottom where the hose connects. The part of the pipe the hose clamped to rusted away. If I actually could get that part to unscrew I could do a $3 repair, but I doubt it will come apart. The factory original exhaust lasted from 1973 to about 1985, so the iron seems to be getting worse.
I actually was thinking I migght take the riser off this spring anyway and remake it just as preventitive maintenance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
FWIW, I am on my 4th exhaust now at 31 years. That is the one it came with and the 3 I have cobbled. One galvanized and 2 black pipe. The one running is on it's third year now.

Dave Neptune
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:40 PM
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Cool A vote for SS Schedule 80

Mine are McMaster-Carr SS Schedule 80 (thick walls) for both hot section and for approx 2 feet post water-injection, paired with the MM SS "Tartan" standpipe. Took me a couple of years! to figure this out. Worth it. Beautiful.

I recommend this setup with the MM standpipe for post 1974 Tartan 27's. (These have the redesigned cockpit and a mounting area on engine room side of forward cockpit bulkhead). May work for other T27's too. It better last a while.
Mary
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:12 PM
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How long will it last?..black iron.

I did a little search here on this sight and figured out that I actually rebuilt the hot exhaust in
- September 2010...used black iron and had it done start to finish in 3 hrs...boat back operational.

- November 2014 ... used black iron again and it took the better part of a day because I was having trouble finding black iron. I ended up going to EMCO, a plumbing supplier, and got some. After that it took no time and she was all back together.

The first black iron hot exhaust I made lasted 4 yrs and 2 month (I had thought previously it was 5 yrs and 2 months).

Keep in mind my boat, for seven months of the year, is started and used almost every day. So the pipe heats up and cools etc almost daily...in a salt environment I'm not sure if that is a factor in longevity. Hopefully, the pipe I've gotten this time is of better quality...or it could be more of the same, who knows.

There was no SS or Brass available or it would have been made of that. Keep in mind that I keep the boat operational and had the rusted/ leaking exhaust off, rebuilt and replaced in less than a day both times.
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Last edited by Mo; 03-23-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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  #12   IP: 73.55.66.163
Old 03-23-2015, 10:17 PM
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Two years ago I rebuilt my exhaust from black iron. I checked online, think I ordered it there too. Pluming dot com, maybe.
I got 10 years out of my last rebuild.

The prices for brass pipe were more then for SS. BTW
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:13 PM
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I got my riser off today. It seems in good shape except the end.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:39 PM
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Talking

A close nipple is always the weak link in a hot section. If possible try using a street 90 on the new one.
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  #15   IP: 64.233.172.163
Old 03-30-2015, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
A close nipple is always the weak link...
That has been my experience as well.

Bill
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Old 03-30-2015, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
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That has been my experience as well.

Bill
Mine too. I've been on two different boats when the close nipple failed and started filling the boat with exhaust and water.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:06 AM
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OK - I'll bite....

I don't see how a close nipple is any different than, say, a 1" nipple. The thread form is the same, the ID is the same, and the picture shows failure at the thread end (or a few threads up) and a 1" nipple would have done the same.

I think we're saying the weight of the exhaust shouldn't be supported solely by a short length of thin pipe thread.

Hanley's suggestion of a street fitting makes sense, because the wall thickness is greater in a cast piece.

So is Mary's suggestion of schedule 80 nipple or pipe.
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Last edited by BunnyPlanet169; 03-30-2015 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardc View Post
Mine too. I've been on two different boats when the close nipple failed and started filling the boat with exhaust and water.
Make that three.

Helpful boating hint of the day: When you look down below and notice the carpet is floating up off the cabin sole there is a problem. Most likely a leak somewhere.

TRUE GRIT
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:34 PM
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I made mine from brass-bronze pipe, and it was always coming loose at the manifold threads.
Then,, I believe the second year it feel apart.
Under the wrap it was just scaled apart and looked like dirt.
Waste of time and money..
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:35 PM
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There is no weight hanging on that fitting. That is strictly corrosion. I am going to come up with something better than a close nipple for my next version of this. The thread crevices can't be a good thing.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:45 PM
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In this photo the MM water injection assembly is bronze/brass and apparently has no issue being used with iron pipe. What would happen if the downstream pipe was brass* and there was a bronze elbow and hose barb at the bottom? Brass and bronze are not allowed in the hot part per ABYC, but this would be on the wet side.

* AFAIK there is no such thing as bronze pipe, only bronze fittings. It would have to be brass or iron.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:25 PM
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What is brass-bronze pipe

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc - which is not meant for sea water contact because the zinc oxidizes and then dissolves.

Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, and is good with sea water.

Don't know what brass-bronze is.

https://www.proboat.com/beware-the-brass.html

Best
Jim
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:38 PM
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brass/bronze is brass or bronze. I can find bronze elbows and hose barbs, but no such thing as bronze nipples or pipe pieces I have even been able to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zellerj View Post
Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc - which is not meant for sea water contact because the zinc oxidizes and then dissolves.

Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, and is good with sea water.

Don't know what brass-bronze is.

https://www.proboat.com/beware-the-brass.html

Best
Jim
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:10 PM
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Bent stainless for hot section

I just took the leaking hot section off of my C&C 30 and it looks exactly like Joe_DBs photo. Possibly even uglier.

I have a pal near me in Edgewater, MD who i asked to weld the cooling water barb to the hot section. He suggested that he could take stainless 1.25 and bend it into the same shape as my old galvanized pipe unit. It will have threads for the manifold flange and stainless barb for the muffler end and the cooling water.

It will do away with four 90 degree corners and offer up a smoother path for the exhaust gasses. It should last quite a bit longer as well. There will be no other metals other than stainless on the section.

I should get the part next week and i will post pics and prices. I expect it to run around $150 total. I will take back the galvanized pipe that I bought from Home Depot for about $55.

Cheers,
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:16 PM
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Please let me know who is doing this - PM if you want. I was quoted $1500 to make one of these.
Thanks!!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by zialater View Post
I just took the leaking hot section off of my C&C 30 and it looks exactly like Joe_DBs photo. Possibly even uglier.

I have a pal near me in Edgewater, MD who i asked to weld the cooling water barb to the hot section. He suggested that he could take stainless 1.25 and bend it into the same shape as my old galvanized pipe unit. It will have threads for the manifold flange and stainless barb for the muffler end and the cooling water.

It will do away with four 90 degree corners and offer up a smoother path for the exhaust gasses. It should last quite a bit longer as well. There will be no other metals other than stainless on the section.

I should get the part next week and i will post pics and prices. I expect it to run around $150 total. I will take back the galvanized pipe that I bought from Home Depot for about $55.

Cheers,
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