#1
IP: 199.91.117.78
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Stripped screw on water pump mounting bolt
Hi,
I changed the two lip seals on my Oberdorfer water pump because I had an important water leek. I put the pump back in place and started the engine. Everything looked good so far, no more leak. I let the engine run for 10 minutes and noticed that there was an oil leak that seemed to come through the bottom bolt on the water pump... the one that is hard to reach. I gave it 1/2 a turn, still leaking... another 1/2 a turn... and so on, to notice that the bolt is always free turning. The threads are probably stripped. I tried to remove it and it's impossible. Tried to unscrew while pulling on the pump at the bolt location, using a flat head screw driver... now I feel I'm in big trouble. Any body has an idea ? |
#2
IP: 74.101.158.133
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Try applying a crowbar to the pump, putting outward pressure on the bolt as you spin it with the socket. You may need a deep socket to be able to effectively grab the bolt while doing this.
Once you have it out, I'm afraid I don't have experience with these myself but I believe a Helicoil will best solve the problem. |
#3
IP: 198.11.8.218
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And...
As Tenders says, but you may find the process more controlled if you put the other bolt back in to keep the pump from flopping around, keeping the mating surfaces more or less parallel.
In fact, it's been my experience (on other assemblies) that with a more controlled prying perpendicular to the flange, the bolt may pull out without twisting. That said, always try unscrewing first! Keep the force applied, and the fulcrum, close to the bad bolt and the other bolt should be fine assuming it's more or less fully threaded. Use a longer bolt in the upper hole as required, but once it starts pulling out, it should be easy. Helicoils are wonderful, assuming you have room to do the drilling and tapping. Don't allow chips into the engine, and be careful to remove the tang of the helicoil with a pair of skinny needle nose pliers. When you're done - consider purchasing the long head bolt from MMI - simply wonderful! http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...key=CSOB_10_89
__________________
Jeff S/V Bunny Planet 1971 Bristol 29 #169 |
#4
IP: 161.213.49.150
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And........Part II
A minor point: If you can use a piece of wood as a lever so you don't ding up the flat surfaces.
TRUE GRIT |
#5
IP: 75.232.142.72
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This is horrible... your vessel is doomed... No only kidding, the above mentioned will get your bolt removed. What you can also try is loosely bolting the pump back on, then get a 7/16 wrench and slip it over the threaded portion of the bolt you are trying to remove, then applying pressure to force the bolt out, while you turn 9/16 wrench to remove the bolt. If you don't want to do the drill and helicoil deal right now , you can try picking up a metric threaded bolt, grade 8 and with the pump removed, thread this bolt into the hole that is stripped, go slowly and remove the bolt to clean the threads of the removed material. This will generally cut new threads to secure the bolt. Make sure that you don't confuse the two different bolts you are now using and put them in the wrong hole on assembly. A metric tap would help here if one is available.
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#6
IP: 199.91.117.78
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Thank's to all of you but...
I tried to pull it out while using a piece of wood, then a crowbar as a lever, had someone to give me a hand... but it won't come out.
The bolt is so damaged now, half way in, half way out, I can turn it easily at hand. This morning, I will try calling a mecano. Martin, from Magdalen Islands. |
#7
IP: 75.251.203.1
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It sounds like a helicoil has already been installed improperly and the coil has threaded through the block into the engine case.
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#8
IP: 24.224.152.244
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Martin,
Get yourself a piece of flat bar about 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick...as thick as will fit in between the pump and the gap you have made with the bolt partially out. Cut a piece out of the bar and allow it to go down on both sides of the bolt. Will attach a pic of what I mean...then pry out and have someone with a rachet as pressure is applied...it should come. Just need to make a tool for it.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. Last edited by Mo; 08-28-2013 at 10:07 PM. |
#9
IP: 161.213.49.150
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Any chance of gripping the head of the bolt with a pair of vice grips and pulling out while twisting?
TRUE GRIT |
#10
IP: 75.48.78.31
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Quote:
Don't worry about the threads, You can drill a size larger hole, and re-thread. Golden Rule: If you can be broken it, it can be fixed. Last edited by domenic; 09-01-2013 at 10:44 PM. |
#11
IP: 199.91.117.78
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Pump reinstalled but still Oil leak ??
Thank's to all of you. I could finally take it out using a crowbar to pry out the bolt while turning it with a box; we only had to be 2 !
To put back the pump, I drilled the whole 1/16 bigger and made new threads. I reinstalled the pump with a new gasket and some silicone gasket on both surface and around the bolts. I'm now certain that the pump is solid, aligned and not leaking any water or oil. BUT !!! I still can see some oil leaking from underneath the pump, as it shows on the picture: Any body has an idea about that ? Last edited by mclaveau; 09-03-2013 at 07:21 AM. |
#12
IP: 24.224.152.244
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I find that if I use silicone as a gasket I put the bolts hand tight for a couple of hours then go back and torque them. Might be you squeezed all the gasket material out of there.
Might look at ordering up a new one from Ken.
__________________
Mo "Odyssey" 1976 C&C 30 MKI The pessimist complains about the wind. The optimist expects it to change. The realist adjusts the sails. ...Sir William Arthur Ward. |
#13
IP: 70.208.69.118
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This happened to me too after I replaced the lip seals. No idea if it was because of a poor alignment of the lip seal, something worn on the shaft, or something leaking around the bolts or gasket.
I put up with it for a few seasons and ended up replacing the pump. If I had to do it again I'd try a little harder to reseal the bolts. The basic problem is that the individual pump components are kind of expensive - the tradeoff is expensive parts that take some time to replace and MIGHT solve the problem, but might not, vs an expensive pump that will DEFINITELY solve the problem. |
#14
IP: 70.66.168.8
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This was a while ago, but I find myself with a similarly stripped hole. Can you describe in a bit more detail how you did that? There is not a lot of room back there for a drill and a tap handle.
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#15
IP: 32.211.28.40
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Suspect you may be using a lock washer there - DON'T. Just a plain flat washer, permatex both sides. Ditto for the lower bolts in the transmission aft flange.
edit: Might be a good place for a stud? |
#16
IP: 70.66.168.8
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Just a flat washer.
I've thought of a stud, but it's the same problem, only a different thread count. Getting a tap handle in there is going to be tricky. Then you have the problem of lining the pump up with the studs while at the same time getting the slot on the pump shaft to engage with the bar inside the accessory drive. There are various solutions involved JBWeld or similar, but it seems a bit oily back there. |
#17
IP: 108.34.135.205
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I have been recommended to burn the oil with a torch before applying JB weld.
__________________
Surcouf A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979) |
#18
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Quote:
https://moyermarine.com/product/aft-...d-ocas_01_258/ It will give you a first class result compared to a glued bolt remedy, especially on a component with rotational stresses. Do it right, cry once ($).
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#19
IP: 67.169.215.221
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@Stephen
You are talking about the stripped hole in the block side and not the accessory drive, correct?
__________________
Thanks, Ron Portland, OR |
#20
IP: 70.66.168.8
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I am talking about the holes that mount the water pump to the aft housing.
I considered replacing the aft housing (I have two A4s sitting in my shed and both aft housings are relatively rust free and have nice, tight holes) but it looks like a lot of work getting that thing off, with a lot of potentially seized bolts. Doesn't the rear seal have to come off? Doesn't that mean pulling the prop? The other thought I had is to try to get access to the inside by removing the accessory drive. |
#21
IP: 24.152.132.140
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Quote:
__________________
Neil 1977 Catalina 30 San Pedro, California prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22 Had my hands in a few others |
#22
IP: 67.169.215.221
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Quote:
Ok, I pretty sure i'm going to get flamed for this, but we could start a sub-forum for "Confessionals" I was a similar situation with a tranny housing in a *very* confined location. The size was the same 5/16x18 and the mating flange didn't have a lot of meat in it so I really didn't want to drill to 3/8". So my toyota buddy said 'let try M8x1.25 bolt, what have you got to lose?". I replied "Just my dignity". After I finished coughing and sputtering about "crossing the streams" of the SAE and Metric universes, jokes about metric crescent wrenches.... and my impending confirmation of dignity loss... he handed me a M8 tap which i stuffed it in my ratcheting tap holder. I packed the hole with heavy grease to catch the shavings, carefully started the tap to line the threads up as best possible and did the deed. When all was done, it worked fine, a small of enough increase in diameter that I didn't need to enlarge the thru-hole it he flange... and is still there 20+ years later. The M8x1.25 is about 0.040" larger than 5/16" and about 20 TPI vs the std 18. I painted the head of bolt 'pink' to remind me that I did an ugly hack that offends my OCD gene everytime I see it. But again, the practical engineer in me said "nice workaround". YMMV. ... i'll go stand in the corner now...
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Thanks, Ron Portland, OR Last edited by ronstory; 04-30-2020 at 12:12 PM. Reason: grammar |
#23
IP: 138.207.175.104
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#24
IP: 67.169.215.221
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Ahh! Thank-you! A support group for the "things we are not proud of" folks.
__________________
Thanks, Ron Portland, OR |
#25
IP: 70.66.168.8
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The current alternatives are:
(1) epoxy to rebuild the threads (2) enlarge the hole and cut new threads I'm not optimistic about option (1), but if someone has done it, I'd love to hear from them. At least one person (back several years ago now) has done option (2), but I'd really like to know about how they did it, given the poor access. Going from 3/8" to M10 is annoying, but acceptable. 7/16" is a bit of a big jump. |
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