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  #51   IP: 192.55.55.41
Old 03-05-2020, 10:39 AM
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Do you have studs on the carb? IMO, it makes a world of difference in the easy of swapping a carb in & out.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstory View Post
Do you have studs on the carb? IMO, it makes a world of difference in the easy of swapping a carb in & out.
Yes, I do. I never thought there was a different method...What would the other option be, just out of curiosity?

Last edited by Ando; 03-05-2020 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 03-05-2020, 10:54 PM
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The old fashion way, studs inserted into the manifold or in the case of the A4... thru bolts. Yuk!

I know when I got my first A4 and tried to reinstall the carb with thru bolts, Ouch. That got fixed with a 25 pack of 5/16" SS Allen heads... So I still have a few left.
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Old 03-06-2020, 06:22 PM
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Today’s update:

Manifold: I disconnected the exhaust from the manifold (that connection was the same one that I had just recently sealed using Neil’s paste to prevent exhaust fumes from leaking from...and it worked perfectly mind you so I was sad about that and sad bc I now need another gasket for that connection). I disconnected the lines and, after an hour or so trying to pry and pull, I finally took off the manifold for the first time and found the following:
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Big thanks to Neil for teaching me that the sooty ports are the exhaust ports (1 at each end and 2 in the middle) the clean ports are intake.

Cleaned it up with a wire brush and put in a fresh gasket thanks to the full gasket kit that came with the engine. Here’s how it looks now:
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Neil also lmk that the manifold gasket goes on dry and is attached dry (no sealant at all).

The mist: it’s blowby, but since compression is good, there’s no need for a valve/lifter replacement. Maybe need a PVC system eventually.

Carb: the carb is off and the mistakenly installed early model main jet has been removed and replaced with the late model main jet. Now off to the garage to see if I can use the main plug from the carb at home. Big thanks to Ken for the tech support on this main jet/plug issue. Btw, he told me that the electric fuel pump has to be be one that has 2 or 3 psi and to check, I’d have to look up the serial numbers that are on the pump itself.

To do list:
1. Get gasket for exhaust/manifold connection
2. Find or buy main jet plug for carb
3. Install manifold, exhaust and carb
4. Check to ensure the electric fuel pump is one with 2 to 3 psi
5. Run a test
If all is well, then
6. Resolve fuel delivery issue (Maybe related to #4 above)
7. I guess I should clean her up a bit too
8. motor out a bit and dare I say...maybe even set sail?
9. either Paint the deck and/or Install EWDS and refresh the instrument panel
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:25 PM
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I got the following checked off my to do list:

1. Get gasket for exhaust/manifold connection (Done this morning)

2. Find or buy main jet plug for carb (Found one on my other carb at home...I also found that the spring that engages the choke was missing and replaced it with the one on my doner carb)

3. Install manifold, exhaust and carb (I just might be doing this tonight if I get out of the office early enough)

4. Check to ensure the electric fuel pump is one with 2 to 3 psi (will probably be the first thing that I do tonight and, again depending what time I get out of the office, maybe it will also the last thing I do)

Next things on the list:
5. Run a test
If all is well, then
6. Resolve fuel delivery issue (Maybe related to #4 above)
7. I guess I should clean her up a bit too
8. motor out a bit and dare I say...maybe even set sail?
9. either Paint the deck and/or Install EWDS and refresh the instrument panel
10. Continue disassembling the early model A4 that's in my garage. For this one, all that's left to do is remove the springs, lifters and cam shaft so I can take the block, head, crank shaft, pistons etc to the machine shop for Dyno testing, honing and machining. Then POR-15, paint, reassemble and put in a display case
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:04 PM
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The adventure continues:

1. I installed the manifold, exhaust and carb (I learned that it is a whole hell of a lot easier to install the exhaust to the manifold when the manifold is off the block...I had planned to spend most of my day installing these three things and I was really not looking forward to the maniforld exhaust connection. But, with the manifold off, it took literally such a short amount of time that I found myself asking what else to do with the rest of the morning, not to mention the rest of the DAY. Felt good). So I did some extra credit work:
1a. Cleaned her up inside and out;
1b. Sanded and varnished all the teak

2. BTW, I checked to ensure the electric fuel pump is one with 2 to 3 psi and found that it is NOT. Its actually a 4-5.5PSI and I found that out only by removing it and wire brushing the metal brackets to reveal six numbers, which I then cross referenced on the Facet website to get my answer. I learned that I really really dislike that one aft bolt holding that fuel pump...any suggestions on a work around? A longer bolt might help, I guess).

3. Ran a test and was getting threatened with a stall from all sides (i.e choke, throttle etc.) Ndutton helped, remotely at first, then dropped off a carburator he knew worked well. I learned what a throttle stop is (its the small screw where the throttle cable connects to the carb) and what it is used for (the best I can describe the purpose of this thing is that it adjusts the position of the slowest/lowest point of the throttle lever in the cockpit, which, in turn sets the idle at a sweet low point).

4. I installed Ndutton's carb and had the same problems until, upon his suggestion, I adjusted the throttle stop and MY GOD she's running! Not only running, guys and gals, running super super quiet and smooth and sweet. Then I basked in the sunshine (both figuratively and literally)
NOTE: Looks like my "doner carb" from my other engine just became my go-to carb because my carb has some sort of air leak causing it to threaten a stall. Upon reflection, this stalling is the very same issue that brought me to this website in the first place. I was rebuilding and rebuilding a dead carb and blew my engine doing it. So, I will rebuild the other carb before putting it on (it'll be my 3rd rebuild experience) and test it and give Neil's awesome carb back, which should be painted gold because that's just how awesome it is.

If all is well, then its on to:
5. Resolve fuel delivery issue (Maybe/hopefully related to #4 above. I dont know because I have been using an external fuel can as my source of fuel for all these tests...maybe I should try installing my actual fuel line before removing Neil's carb???)

6. motor out a bit and dare I say...maybe even set sail?

7. either Paint the deck and/or Install EWDS and refresh the instrument panel

8. Bossum chair my butt up the mast and repair the lights and install a line or two for flag waving

9. BTW, I received the spring lifter tool ($27+shipping from MMI) which will allow me to continue disassembling the early model that's in my garage. Once I remove the springs, lifters and cam shaft, I can take the block, head, crank shaft, pistons etc to the machine shop for Dyno testing, honing and machining. Then POR-15, paint it gold , reassemble and put in a display case.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:59 AM
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Additional information

Previously the engine would only run, albeit poorly, with about 3/4 choke. Ando installed a new manifold gasket on principle to be certain there was no intake leak. He also removed the PCV spacer between the carb and manifold to eliminate a second possible leak source and new gaskets all around. He described the test that followed, still ran only with choke but not quite as much.

He was able to try some carburetor adjustments, particularly the idle mixture. He reported it seemed to run a little better with the mixture screw turned all the way down to its seat. This indicated the fuel-air mixture was off, either short on fuel or long on air.

He had rebuilt this carburetor a few times, at least one of those with the wrong body half gasket (early model gasket on a late model carb) but the current configuration was correct. He was careful to rod out the tiny passages in the carb throat and set the float correctly. For me, I was done with this carburetor. ENOUGH!

The first test with my spare carburetor was not a total success. With the idle mixture screw preset a 1¼ turns off its seat Ando reported it started easily, ran with no choke at all but would stall if either choke was applied or the throttle was run to its lower stop. I figured the engine was warm enough from the test run to not need choke and 1¼ turns off the seat was probably a little rich (a direction I wanted it to be given the earlier symptoms) so application of any choke would cause a stall - as it should so all good there. For the stall at the low throttle stop I suggested tightening the throttle stop screw which solved it.

I want to repeat that Ando did all of this on his own with his MMI manual and a little advice along the way. It has taken a while but I did not turn any wrenches and that was intentional. He started as an admitted total newbie and at this stage he has replaced his engine (for other reasons) including reconnecting everything, worked through troubleshooting non-starting and later non-running problems with little improvements every step of the way. He isolated the on board fuel system problem (yet to be chased down) with an auxiliary tank so troubleshooting could proceed. He learned how to perform a compression test, how to set the timing from scratch and what certain symptoms indicate.

When we both have time available I'll make another visit to his boat to fine tune the timing and carburetor settings but that will only be refinements. We will develop a strategy for the on board fuel system problem too.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:41 AM
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great thread for the others around. Thank you for reporting progress and issues...
-- It has comforted me in my intentions not to overhaul my carburetor before I pass my engine-in-overhaul on its test bench: my engine was running decently before, so if I have issues restarting, I prefer not to add the carb on the list of things I could have messed up with. If engine runs, then only carb will gets its overhaul too.
-- POR-15: great paint, but lesson learnt: go down to bare metal. No POR above an old paint.
-- thank you for all the tips on carb tuning / chocke cable etc.. something tells me this is going to come handy quickly.
Only comment: not many pictures, and I love engine pictures.

Good luck for the rest!
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
The adventure continues:

2. BTW, ... my answer. I learned that I really really dislike that one aft bolt holding that fuel pump...any suggestions on a work around? A longer bolt might help, I guess).

9. BTW, I received the spring lifter tool ($27+shipping from MMI) which will allow me to continue disassembling the early model that's in my garage. Once I remove the springs, lifters and cam shaft, I can take the block, head, crank shaft, pistons etc to the machine shop for Dyno testing, honing and machining. Then POR-15, paint it gold , reassemble and put in a display case.
Regarding the install of the facet pump on the block, I bought two 2.5" long bolts (partially threaded) and jammed a nut up to the end of the tread with of bit of JB weld for permanence. Much easier to control where the end of the bolt need to be... and next time I would make it even longer, perhaps 3" or 3.5" long.

As for dyno testing the A4, we really want video.
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Old 03-31-2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstory View Post
Regarding the install of the facet pump on the block, I bought two 2.5" long bolts (partially threaded) and jammed a nut up to the end of the tread with of bit of JB weld for permanence. Much easier to control where the end of the bolt need to be... and next time I would make it even longer, perhaps 3" or 3.5" long.

As for dyno testing the A4, we really want video.
Regarding the partially threaded bolt: boy this is so freaking smart and simple... Love it.
Regarding the dyno testing: this is something I would NOT try with my rusty block, but I would love a video too!!!
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:45 PM
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Not a video but you might find this interesting. Here is a picture from a few years ago of Don posing with a new block A4 being tested on the original dynomometer Universal used. Load is applied by a water brake attached to the output coupler.

And FYI, I don't think a shop will technically dyno individual parts.
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:14 PM
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Lightbulb We all have our DYNO

I have run many an engine on water brake dyno's and they work great. I had one blow up when doing a bunch of "Offy's" for team Rahal before he got into the Indy class. We had one engine that we destroyed because of troubles with that particular engine. The engine was testing about 7~10 Hp below the rest, we set it aside and finished the rest of the engines then mounted the cantankerous one. I was on the gages and the boss was fiddling with the engine. We got so entranced with the engine we did not pay proper attention to the water tank. Well we were under full load when the engine "revved" without resistance. The dyno impeller came apart before the engine and we thanked our lucky stars that we were not destroyed too. The dyno came apart after running out of water (around 10500+RPM's) and destroyed the roof and walls of a cinder brick building. When the dust settled we looked completely covered in dust. There was daylight where there was none before and we still had all our parts Luckily neither of us were in radial alignment with the impeller housing thus no harm to us. The Offy had no valvetrain left, the pistons were destroyed as well as the block. Lucky to of survived!!! The problem was that the #3 cam lobes were a few degrees off of centerline thus the HP discrepancy. We shipped 13 engine not the 14 ordered. The fourteenth was shipped after the building was fixed and the dyno replaced.

On OB engines we had what were called "test wheels" which were kinda a prop with no real thrust only resistance. These test wheels were specific to a particular engine, and reaching a specific RPM while in the test tank was only confirmation of HP. Perhaps one of these could be adapted to the A-4 for testing but the prop would be removed and replaced after testing. A not so good procedure..

Now we all have props on our boats but many different ones. The load from the water is a "dyno" of sorts. By measuring our RPM's vs load "when the prop and bottom" are clean is the same thing but without the HP rating that a dyno will give. This load vs RPM is how to tune "your" engine by making the constants of resistance of the clean prop and hull your dyno and higher RPM's being a gain and visa versa.

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Old 04-01-2020, 12:03 AM
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I really appreciate the comments, tips, pics and stories, guys. I'll post more pics from now on

Last night I dismantled what was once my "doner" carb and rebuilt it this morning using the parts from my recently acquired (late model) rebuild kit, all the parts of which were in the carb that has the air leak.

I pray to Netuno (the Italian God of the Sea) it works just as good as Neil's does as I haven't installed it yet. But not before putting in a 3"-3.5" partially threaded bolt and Permatex'd nut in that aft fuel pump bracket as I just might have one (hopefully two) laying around.

Thanks again guys.

P.S. re testing the integrity of the almost totally disassembled early model: I called it "Dyno" testing but was really just referring to testing the integrity of the block. The machine shop's website has a pic of a machine called "Superflow" on it...so I figured that was the machine they use to "Dyno" test. Here's the link: http://www.valleyhead.com/tour.html scroll all the way down and you'll see a pic of the machine I am referring to. I saw it and just assumed it was the same thing.

Last edited by Ando; 04-01-2020 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:48 AM
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Ando, that's a "flow bench" which is for testing how much air you can get through the "ports". After a few hours of grinding, cutting and scraping the ports so they are a bit larger and especially "smoothed" out for air flow. Then back to the bench to check for improvement hopefully. I have observed some flow benches that actually rotate the hole engine at various RPM's with the carb or FI attached just to measure how well the engine "pumps" air at various settings. No fuel used in this testing. Basically they measure air volume whereas a dyno measures HP at various RPM's and throttle settings.

Looks like a good "ole boys" shop. Thatch would enjoy those toys.

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Old 04-02-2020, 03:10 PM
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Old 04-02-2020, 03:12 PM
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That’s so much easier to deal with. Thank you ronstory 👍🏼👏🏼
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Old 04-02-2020, 04:16 PM
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[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/XBIw-YZVU04[/YOUTUBE]

I installed the rebuilt doner carb and she’s running ��

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Old 04-02-2020, 07:29 PM
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Glad to help, I did it twice the hard way before I learned.

... and CONGRATS on the running part. Woo-hoo!!
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Old 04-02-2020, 10:18 PM
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Ando, thinking back to when you started this quest, how is your confidence level now?
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Old 04-02-2020, 10:43 PM
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Ha! It's flying pretty high right now yet I know still have a lot to learn and that makes me happy too. So ya, I'm pretty stoked
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:29 AM
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Woo-hoo!
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:58 AM
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Talking

Quote:
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Woo-hoo!
Thx ronstory...it's def a nice feeling of a milestone. Reflecting on how it all slowly unfolded, the stories, the people met, the things learned, the places discovered, and the friends I met on the way (you guys) and looking forward to the future really puts a grin on my face.

And on that note, on to the next task (ie resolving the fuel delivery issue). Maybe it resolved itself? Ha!
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:34 AM
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Excellent.

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Old 04-10-2020, 07:38 PM
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04/10/20 update:

Hi All, I worked on the fuel delivery issue today.

Since the external fuel tank was connected to the efp and the engine ran and ran, I knew the efi and the carb are both working.

Therefore, I connected this bulb at the end of the fuel line (ie I connected this bulb where the internal fuel line meets the efp.

And began pumping. And fuel came out (into a clear container). I figured "might as well see if there's any water/fuel separation while I'm at it.”

Then the internal fuel line was connected to the efp. I got the go ahead to “fire it up” from ndutton.

It was running and running good. I then went to open the thru hull valve and, to my dismay, it was already open 🤦🏻*♂️ And the exhaust pipe was smoking like crazy, which worried me a lot. So I turned the A4 off to cool it down and it did not restart. Based on nudtton’s suggestion, I checked for fuel in the carb and there was about a shot glass of fuel.

He then had me reconnect the auxiliary tank and try to start. Aux tank connected...Wasnt starting...realized engine was warm and so I closed the choke and it started. Maybe the open choke is the reason it didn't start again when the main fuel line was connected? Bingo! That was it! The engine was warm and wouldn’t restart bc the choke was closed. Learned that a warm engine doesn’t need choke when it’s warm from Mr. ndutton awhile back and I’m just glad I remembered it.

I guess the short story is that fuel delivery issue did actually resolve itself!!

As a bonus:
The forward and reverse actually work!! (I didn't know for sure if they would bc I didn't test that prior to the purchase of this new old engine)

She threatened a stall when I first eased her into forward. Reverse was fine. Upon a third attempt at forward, she didn’t threaten a stall at all...ok maybe a bit but not too bad. I’ll take it. Who’s up for a test drive?
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:00 PM
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Ando Ando is offline
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Here’s some media[YOUTUBE] https://youtu.be/YKEmqehVyXw[/YOUTUBE] This mist scared me at first but it dissipated
[YOUTUBE] https://youtu.be/H23Byumu3rs[/YOUTUBE] this resolved itself. I assume it was from the thru hull being open for a few days.Name:  DEC196E4-AA35-4ACC-B25A-FA84BF148E94.jpg
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Size:  157.4 KBfuel pic...no separation whatsoever
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  #75   IP: 174.254.194.42
Old 04-10-2020, 10:18 PM
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I hadn't installed the OPSS correctly the first time I put it in not very long ago. The plug wires weren't in all the way and I figured that out because I took them apart to resolve the fuel delivery issue, and when I separated the wires and connected them to the actual plugs that go into the OPSS, the engine refused to start. So I took the wires out of the plugs and saw they the wires were not properly secured to the plugs. I saw that when I removed the yellow protector covering (plastic) the actual plug (metal). Once the metal plug was separated from the yellow plastic, I placed the the entire wire through the yellow plastic covering. Then I clamped the wire to the metal plug and the slid the yellow covering over the wire and the metal connection. Then simply plugged each into their proper spots on the OPSS. I’m sorry for the lack of pictures. I’m horrible at taking pictures in the heat of the job. The connections are now in properly and i know bc the A4 is again working!!
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