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  #1   IP: 174.216.16.146
Old 02-19-2020, 06:46 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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No fuel suggestions...

Hi all,
Im pulling my hair out. Out of the blue my engine wont start..it barely even coughs. It has electronic ignition and a new coil. I verified spark individually on all the plugs. So that leaves fuel. I took the carb apart and cleaned it (I hope!) and have verified that the gas line to the carb in fact pushes gas through. I shot starter fluid into the arrestor while cranking...nuttin! Occasionally it makes an awful Ping! So im a bit hesitant to crank it much more til i figure something out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Jazz
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  #2   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 02-20-2020, 07:53 AM
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Your testing thus far is good, it covers two of the three basic food groups: Fuel → Spark → Compression. Can you please provide a compression test (plugs removed, throttle wide open, small coil (-) wire disconnected)? Also, consider the Undo Button. What if anything has been done to the engine since the last time it ran well?
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  #3   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 02-20-2020, 09:36 AM
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If there's good spark but no roar with the starting ether, there's something else going on. Like neil suggests, check compression. Any chance the spark is occurring at the wrong time? The 'awful ping' makes me wonder if there's something amiss in the distributor?
I wouldn't start addressing fuel issues until you can get the engine to respond to the starting ether.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:00 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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Hi thanks for your responses. With my finger over an open plug hole, it forcefully gets blown off. Compression seems solid.

I was thinking something w the distributor too. I had a friend poke around on it recently?? Yesterday I was trying to verify piston 1 tdc w Dons method but had varying results. Last night i read its when the valve in #4 just starts to go so im headed down there now to try this new bit.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:22 PM
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If you look down the #1 hole from the starboard size of the boat looking across at the port (manifold) side, you can just barely see the valves moving. Also you can use the thumb system, piston going up and pressure is good, going up and no pressure is the exhaust stroke.
Re the spark: How long and what color? Are the plugs dry? I used to have issues with the wire from coil to distributor going bad slowly, so there would be spark, just not enough of it. Try replacing that wire.
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:57 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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Hi
Wires are on the list. The spark is blue/yellow. Im hesitant to change wires until I atleast get it to cough. It should do something even w a yellow lame spark right? Nuttin...just. rrr.rrr.rrr.rr. PING!
Hunting down a fuel pressure gauge at auto store then off to the boat.
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Old 02-20-2020, 03:04 PM
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The "ping" or "plunck" which sounds like a weak firing is probably a timing/distributor issue. Years ago one night I put the distributor on wrong by not marking the rotor position and put the timing way off and got the same result. Also would not surprise me if the "friend" put the wires back on in the wrong order on the distributor especially with the 1-2-4-3 sequence.
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Old 02-20-2020, 04:58 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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Ok got an interesting surprise...everything Ive read tells me the #1 point on distributor is the farthest one on late models..early models poi t towards block. So just as the #4 valve is cracking open, the pin on the flywheel is vertical.. i get this on distributor...the wires def were not wired for this. Is this pointing at #1?
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Old 02-20-2020, 05:45 PM
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Unless someone is playing a practical joke on you, how could the wires get re-arranged between shutdown and startup
Did you literally JUST put a new coil in and now it won't work
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Old 02-20-2020, 05:56 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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I have no idea...maybe my buddy did something. The coil was just a replacement because the other one looked terrible. It wasnt involved in this fix Just a precautionary measure. It ran on the old one until the day I came out and it wouldnt start. Do you think its safe to just wire it up and try? I thought the rotor was supposed to point a different direction on #1

Also just plumbed in a fuel pressure gauge..not the sexiest install but cheeaaap! In case we need it.
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Old 02-20-2020, 06:07 PM
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I've always set the distributor so that with #1 cylinder at TDC (firing position), the rotor was pointing away from the block. But it doesn't matter - as long as the #1 lead is connected to the post that the rotor is pointing to. I recommend you remove the distributor clamp, lift the distributor a bit, turn the rotor and shaft so the rotor is pointing away from the block, then reseat the distributor. You might have to do this twice as the rotor will move as you reseat it. You're on your own for getting the EI stuff oriented - I'm used to points.
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Old 02-20-2020, 06:23 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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Ok I wired it up..nice new plugs..gauge showing fuel pressure, though it fluctuated like crazy between like 2 and 4 (i think its just the nature of the pump)..theres nice spark everywhere. Leads me back to the carb? Im not sure plugs are getting the juice now couldnt be anything else. Its hard to smell them because I lubed the threads a bit and the threads look wet and smell similar. Someome shoot me please. Ohhh a small bonus...no PINGGGG! No help from starter fluid. Chike appears to be closing all the way.

Last edited by Jazzydaze; 02-20-2020 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 02-20-2020, 06:30 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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Heres the choke..I cant tell if you can see but its wet in there.
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  #14   IP: 174.245.241.136
Old 02-20-2020, 07:20 PM
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Back in the carb. Its possible to hang up the needle valve pushing floats up and down. Its clipless. Researching float adjustment. The bowl had gas. Jets seem clear.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:56 PM
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Back up a step.
Is it:
1. Engine ran
2. Coil was replaced.
3. Now it doesn't run.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:41 PM
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Joe,
your #2 should be 'friend replaced coil and did other stuff'

I stand by my recommendation to forget about the fuel system until you can get a response from the ether. Jazz seems to want to go off and play with the fuel system. The gauge is a nice addition, but it's not solving his problem.
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  #17   IP: 174.245.241.136
Old 02-20-2020, 08:42 PM
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Nopers...was engine ran. Went home came back engine didnt run. Friend tinkers in here somewhere...then I Cleaned carbs..put on the spare coil..new plugs. Still no go.

So just tore into the carb and seems fine. I pulled the 3 and 4 plugs they were wet..spark is good...1 and 2 not as wet if at all, good spark. Starter fluid Zero help.

Why if i have spark does starter fluid do nothing???? The coil wire easily makes a half inch and the new plugs are sharp and blue. Stumped. Shes buttoned up and im done for a few days and off to work. Ill keep an eye on the thread if you guys get any ideas.
Im now thinking that SOMEHOW its just not firing when its supposed to. But how this happened after parking it and coming back to it a week later..no clue.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzydaze View Post

Why if i have spark does starter fluid do nothing????
EXACTLY what I'm wondering! I know how to find TDC on #1, position the distributor so the rotor points where I want, but I know nothing about EI. If you had points/condenser, I could help you further.

Recommend you get the literature for your EI system and get smart on it.
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  #19   IP: 70.185.132.167
Old 02-20-2020, 08:54 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzydaze View Post
But how this happened after parking it and coming back to it a week later..no clue.



Did the "friend"maintain\improve the during the week? If yes ask him what he did to the engine.
If no do a compression test. There maybe a blown head gasket between two cylinders, most likely #2 & 3

ex TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:59 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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All friend claims to have done was to put the starter back on that I have off..remove and replace plug wires w photos.

I put my finger over the holes and bump the key it literally blew my finger off every cylinder almost painfully. But Ill order a compression tester and should have it for when i get back from this next trip. Round 3 coming up...Jazzy's looking a little bloody and wobbly in the corner!
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  #21   IP: 70.185.132.167
Old 02-20-2020, 09:44 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Your plug wires should look like this:

ex TRUE GRIT

Edit: Be sure the rotor is pointing to #1 terminal on the distributor cap when #1 cylinder is at TDC compression
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File Type: pdf A4 WIRING-2-2.pdf (421.7 KB, 370 views)

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 02-20-2020 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:50 PM
Jazzydaze Jazzydaze is offline
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Hi,

As far as I can tell, its just like that. I found #1 tdc by watching for #4 valve to crack open. It coincided with the flywheel pin being vertical. In my case it was pointing at the Southeast hole in the dist if your looking towards tranny and thats North.
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Old 02-21-2020, 01:22 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzydaze View Post
Hi,
It coincided with the flywheel pin being vertical. In my case it was pointing at the Southeast hole in the dist if your looking towards tranny and thats North.
If you turn the boat 180 degrees will the timing become 180 degrees off?
Just kidding.

The "stock " setting of the distributor and wiring into have #1 spark plug wire at 9 o'clock position when facing the engine from the flywheel end or the 3 o'clock position when facing the engine from the tranny end.

However, the engine timing will still be correct if the rotor is pointing to the distributor tower that has the wire to #1 spark plug when #1 cylinder is at TDC compression. Under this scenario #1 spark plug wire can be in any tower on the cap. This would be a "not stock" arrangement of the spark plug wires.

When it gets confusing (or when "friends" are "helping") it is usually easier to go back to the original setting and further troubleshoot from that setting if necessary.

ex TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzydaze View Post
Why if i have spark does starter fluid do nothing????
In order for the engine to run, you need spark, fuel, and compression, and they have to arrive at the same time (timing).

You have confirmed spark and fuel (starter fluid). A stuck valve can cause loss of compression, but this would only affect one cylinder, and the A4 can easily start and run on 3.

THERFORE, you must have a timing issue.

I know you said you had located #1 TDC on the compression stroke, but it is very easy to get this wrong and actualy be on TDC of the exhaust stroke.

There's a simple test. Simply rotate all the wire connections on the dist cap by 180 degrees, and try to start. If it runs (or at least trys to), you have your answer.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:22 AM
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Make sure you are turning the engine the correct direction when doing all this! Mine has an arrow to look at.
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