We live in Freeport Maine...

[GEM555]

Am I correct in thinking you take the cylinder head off and work on the valves every time you go out?

I don't. I have to $$$ to get a mechanic to get the valves to valve. Been through two cans of "Sea Foam" with no joy. The pattern is that the engine refuses to start after sitting idle for more than 1 or 2 days. Run it on Sunday and I can be assured that by Friday night, I can crank all I want and that engine will. not. start. That blows the weekend, then the mechanic during the following week, the bills and then MAYBE, i'll have an engine the following weekend. Maybe.

[joe_db]

Did you see my questions?
First off, why did you buy a manifold?

[wristwister]

When you come back to the boat and it won't start, do you squirt a little starting fluid down the carb to see if it will kick over that way? I'd highly suggest it. One of 3 things will happen:

1. It will kick over enough to get things moving then run on it's own.

2. It will kick over, then stop when the spray is gone. This means you've got a fuel problem somewhere from the carb back.

3. It won't kick over at all. This means you've got a spark/ignition problem.

If nothing else, this will at least narrow down the issue.

[GEM555]

Did you see my questions?
First off, why did you buy a manifold?

The old one was leaking (dripping) out what I was told was a winterization port and the leak could not be stopped. The sea water was landing on the top of the fuel pump.

[GEM555]

It is possible that engine just needs replacing.
It is also possible it is a $5 repair you all have not found yet.
You would have been well served to live-blog your repair efforts on this thread. The collective knowledge base here far exceeds almost any other engine you could name.
Let us start from the very basic premise that the engine needs to have compression and not have water in the cylinders for it to have a chance of functioning.
Did you pressure test the block? Results?
>>>Me? "Pressure test the block"? Surely, you jest. What's a "block"?

Did you pressure test the manifold? Results?
>>>It's new. With a new gasket.

Why did you buy a new manifold? What was wrong with the last one?
>>>Water leak with a winterization port. Could not be glued shut.

Did you do a compression test? Results?
>>> See "Pressure test the "Block"" above.

See my answers above. Thanks.

[Marty Levenson]

move on?

No disrespect, but my impression is that you don't want to learn how to keep these old engines running and instead want it all fixed and reliable as a kitchen appliance.

Without mindful preventive attention, you will continue to have problems - mostly minor and easily repairable. Most of us on this forum get a feeling of self-reliance and satisfaction from expanding our knowledge, heading off problems, and fixing issues.

I don't know about your aptitude, but your attitude seems incompatible with A4 ownership. Rather than continued resentment that these engines need care, I would suggest you get a boat with a new outboard for ease of service. Problems will still happen, but knowledgeable service will be easier to find.

[joe_db]

The old one was leaking (dripping) out what I was told was a winterization port and the leak could not be stopped. The sea water was landing on the top of the fuel pump.

Well THAT would have been a good point to consult us. If the freeze plugs are leaking, that certainly doesn't require a whole new manifold if the manifold itself is intact. If the drain plug was leaking and/or the freeze plugs because the manifold was cracked, that can indicate the engine was allowed to freeze at some point and you may have one or more cracks in the block as well. Which is also why you need to pressure test the block. The symptoms seem similar to what I had with an A4 that had leaks into the cylinders.

[joe_db]

No disrespect, but my impression is that you don't want to learn how to keep these old engines running and instead want it all fixed and reliable as a kitchen appliance.

Without mindful preventive attention, you will continue to have problems - mostly minor and easily repairable. Most of us on this forum get a feeling of self-reliance and satisfaction from expanding our knowledge, heading off problems, and fixing issues.

I don't know about your aptitude, but your attitude seems incompatible with A4 ownership. Rather than continued resentment that these engines need care, I would suggest you get a boat with a new outboard for ease of service. Problems will still happen, but knowledgeable service will be easier to find.

My A4 is as reliable as a kitchen appliance right now, but it took some doing to get there!
I agree, I don't think the OP is well suited for old boat maintenance. Something like a J-22 with almost no systems and an outboard that can be hauled to a shop or replaced would probably get him a lot more sailing with a lot less hassle.
The other idea is just buy a new Moyer engine and get a local yard to install it. YMMV on if that is worthwhile to you.

[ndutton]

Marty, that's exactly what I observed three months ago.

[edwardc]

Fuel and spark delivered to the cylinders and compression. A properly functioning choke and correctly adjusted timing.
>>>Engine ran fine 5 short days previously. Typically will not start after sitting idle for more than one/two days.

This is typical behavior for sticking valves.

Fuel: Do the cylinders smell of unburned fuel after a period of no start cranking?
>>>How to check? I have to rely on a mechanic for that.

To check, remove a spark-plug wire, remove the spark-plug using a deep-well socket wrench, and smell the end of the spark-plug.

Is fuel collecting in the throat of the carburetor after a period of no start cranking? Is the fuel clean (no water in it)?
>>>How to check? I have to rely on a mechanic for that.

This one's easy. There will be a STRONG small of gas in the engine compartment, and gas will be dripping out of the bottom of the carb, from the joint between the carb and the flame arrestor.

Spark: Hold a screw driver in a spark plug boot and see if you can jump an arc to a spark plug while cranking. Are the wires on the spark plugs in the correct firing order?
>>>Yes. I know that stuff is correct, because the engine ran fine 5 days ago.

But we're looking for the cause of an intermittant failure. What it did 5 days ago isn't nearly as important as what it's doing now. We need to check it when the engine wont start.

Compression: Do a compression test.
>>>I have to rely on a mechanic for that.

To test, disconnect all spark plugs (keep track of which wire goes where), remove all the spark plugs, and for each cylinder one at a time screw-in a compression gauge in place of a spark-plug, crank the engine with the starter for a couple of seconds, and read the value off of the gauge.

Choke: Is the choke closing all the way?
>>>Yes.

Its not enough to just check the choke knob, you have to remove the flame arrestor from the carb and look into it to see if the choke plate is actually closing.

Timing:Is the rotor pointing to number 1 wire position on the distributor when #1 is at TDC
compression.
>>>I have to rely on a mechanic for that. Just out of curiosity, how in God's name can you see into the engine to determine where anything "is" at any given point in the combustion cycle?

You remove the distributor cap (the thing with all the spark-plug wires coming off of it) and check which direction the rotor indide the distributor is pointing. As for the engine, there is a timing mark (usually a V shaped notch) on the flywheel cover. A small pin thru the end of the shaft serves as a pointer. Using the starter, or a hand crank, uou rotate the engine until the pin lines up with the notch.


I know you're not mechanically inclined, but as you can see, these procedures are pretty simple. And even if you don't do them, this info can be passed on to whoever does work on the engine.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Let's get back to basics. What does the engine need to start and run?
Fuel and spark delivered to the cylinders and compression. A properly functioning choke and correctly adjusted timing.

Fuel: Do the cylinders smell of unburned fuel after a period of no start cranking?
Is fuel collecting in the throat of the carburetor after a period of no start cranking? Is the fuel clean (no water in it)?
Spark: Hold a screw driver in a spark plug boot and see if you can jump an arc to a spark plug while cranking. Are the wires on the spark plugs in the correct firing order?
Compression: Do a compression test.
Choke: Is the choke closing all the way?
Timing:Is the rotor pointing to number 1 wire position on the distributor when #1 is at TDC compression.
Let us know which system is not working so we can get it fixed.

TRUE GRIT

Step #1: Get rid of the "mechanic".
This is basic troubleshooting. Any "mechanic" should know how to do these procedures. Either the "mechanic" is not to skilled or is taking you for a money grabbing ride.

TRUE GRIT

[GEM555]

No disrespect, but my impression is that you don't want to learn how to keep these old engines running and instead want it all fixed and reliable as a kitchen appliance.

Without mindful preventive attention, you will continue to have problems - mostly minor and easily repairable. Most of us on this forum get a feeling of self-reliance and satisfaction from expanding our knowledge, heading off problems, and fixing issues.

I don't know about your aptitude, but your attitude seems incompatible with A4 ownership. Rather than continued resentment that these engines need care, I would suggest you get a boat with a new outboard for ease of service. Problems will still happen, but knowledgeable service will be easier to find.

I'm not retired and so have limited time at the boat. Don't want to spend the time I do have hinking with a bulky engine for two days. Understand routine maintenance but flat out unreliability is a different matter. The guy I hired has invested a bunch of his own time, unpaid, trying to keep this thing running. Got almost no time on the water the entire season. I'd sell it but no market for a Cat with an A4. What to do?

[ndutton]

I understand you've decided the engine is beyond hope or otherwise possessed but for the mechanics you've hired to be unable to figure out what is essentially a lawn mower engine with a few more cylinders is more of a comment on the mechanics than the engine. Please realize that there were somewhere around 40,000 of these engines made with approximately 20,000 still in service many decades later. I appreciate these mechanics are professional but all that means is they charge for their services, not that they have the necessary experience or skills and frankly judging by the information you have provided, they don't. It's my opinion and I dare say an opinion shared by others on this forum that they've taken advantage of the situation. Too bad they don't charge on the basis of results instead of unskilled hours.

The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time.

As for no market for a C30 with an A4, consider that the boat is 35 ~ 40 years old so there was no market when you bought it. No surprise there. As an example, I bought my C30 thirteen years ago in sailing condition (meaning complete) with a running engine for $5K. There's your market. What I get out of the purchase and subsequent years of ownership is pleasure equity, not $$.

What I want for you
Either find the skilled local support you so desperately need to be able to enjoy this boat or rid yourself of the aggravation. This is supposed to be fun.

[JOHN COOKSON]

I don't. I have to $$$ to get a mechanic to get the valves to valve. Been through two cans of "Sea Foam" with no joy. The pattern is that the engine refuses to start after sitting idle for more than 1 or 2 days. Run it on Sunday and I can be assured that by Friday night, I can crank all I want and that engine will. not. start. That blows the weekend, then the mechanic during the following week, the bills and then MAYBE, i'll have an engine the following weekend. Maybe.

I'm not 100% convinced the engine has a problem. This post leads me to think the engine runs normally. IMO that is.
The ignition system and the fuel system have two parts. The boat's part and the engine's part.
If the boat's part of the system is not working correctly the engine will not start or run.
For example if there is an intermittent short circuit in the key or wiring to the coil the engine will not start sometimes.

TRUE GRIT

[joe_db]

OTOH my wag right now is it froze over the winter and water seeps into the engine when it sits.
Or it could be something totally different
The basic issue is the OP is not enjoying his boat. This is not his job, it is hobby and he seems to have not realized what owning a cruising sailboat entails.

* this reminds me of a friend with a Model A Ford. He quickly learned that if he wanted a reliable car to drive, he either needed to learn to work on it or get a new car because the local shops were not good with cars from 1930 and he couldn't afford the time or money to get the car to a specialist shop that knew the car.