Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Overhaul

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 12-11-2019, 02:52 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 16
Thanked 578 Times in 405 Posts
Why do we happily spend hours trying to save a part that can be replaced with new for $0.25 (or even $25.00)?
Reply With Quote
  #77   IP: 165.225.38.128
Old 12-11-2019, 03:16 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Why do we happily spend hours trying to save a part that can be replaced with new for $0.25 (or even $25.00)?
the keepers? I was not trying to save them, I was just trying to remove the valves without bending them or damaging the guides
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #78   IP: 165.225.38.128
Old 12-12-2019, 05:35 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
So head is saved! Machine shop was able to drill out the 2 rusted / broken spark plugs, without any damages to the threads, so no damn helicoils!
Head clean, flatness checked within spec. Done in less than 2 days, 70$. R&R Machining in Warwick, RI. great shop!

Spent 30 minutes with shop owner chatting and going through all the weird engines and motors they have all around the shop, some very nice and rare pieces (not just muscle cars blocks, even if these are nice).

So thank you Jcwright for your offer, but it seems that I will not need your spare head!!!

I need to cut those bolts now, take the flywheel and the cover out. At that point, there should be no more disassembly required. Time to seriously start cleaning, stripping, painting etc... the fun part no?
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #79   IP: 100.40.58.241
Old 12-13-2019, 11:32 AM
jcwright jcwright is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 158
Thanks: 5
Thanked 99 Times in 75 Posts
Hello Surcouf.

Well I keep trying to loan or give away tools and parts from my rebuild, so far without success.

I'm glad to hear that you could salvage your head. Mine will have to wait to be adopted by anyone else in RI or nearby who is looking for one.

Best regards,

Jack.
Reply With Quote
  #80   IP: 104.129.196.207
Old 12-13-2019, 11:52 AM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwright View Post
Hello Surcouf.

Well I keep trying to loan or give away tools and parts from my rebuild, so far without success.

I'm glad to hear that you could salvage your head. Mine will have to wait to be adopted by anyone else in RI or nearby who is looking for one.

Best regards,

Jack.
Do not let those tools get buried too far... What have you used to install the output coupling back? (TOOL_08_137). I was able to remove it with a classic automotive puller, but I do nto have anything to put it back. I was going to make one, but if you have the official MM's one...
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #81   IP: 128.148.231.35
Old 12-13-2019, 05:11 PM
jcwright jcwright is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 158
Thanks: 5
Thanked 99 Times in 75 Posts
The tool you mention was one that I didn't buy, though in hindsight it seems penny-wise and pound foolish.

Two items that may be of use are the stud pullers (both sizes that are needed) and an engine stand (with the modifications needed for the A4). Send me a PM if you are interested in borrowing them.

Jack.
Reply With Quote
  #82   IP: 108.34.135.205
Old 12-14-2019, 07:33 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
The nice way did not work... so Dremel was out. Flywheel cover came nicely, the 2 broken bolts too.
Baby steps....
Attached Images
 
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #83   IP: 108.34.135.205
Old 03-07-2020, 10:20 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Lazy...

So after 2.5 months doing nothing on the engine, it is more than time to go back to it. My fault, as I tried to train for a marathon (mid-life crisis), and take care of an engine, on top of the daily job => failure. But a famous virus cancelled the marathon, so I felt I had to get back on the engine...

I have only started with the misc parts requiring painting... so multiple cleaning and degreasing, rust prevention, and first coat of POR 15 done in the basement (my wife hates me). Not sure what is inside that paint... but one of my plastic glove got damaged at one point and I just cannot get that paint away from my hand... mineral spirit, scrubbing etc ... none of the usual trick is efficient. A good sign !!
Attached Images
  
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #84   IP: 108.34.135.205
Old 03-08-2020, 09:16 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Paint questions for you guys: after painting do you remove paint from the spark plug seat? Do you clean the plug threads for any paint that may have leaked?

Thank you!!
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #85   IP: 70.185.132.167
Old 03-08-2020, 09:30 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
The spark plugs are grounded to the head. Having clean threads and seats for the plugs can only help with proper grounding.

Acetone on a rag will remove almost any paint from your hands.

ex TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #86   IP: 165.225.38.211
Old 03-09-2020, 02:43 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Questions for you guys: when I removed the engine head, it was hell to lift the head out of the studs. So regarding the cleaning of all "through holes" that go through the head for the studs, I would like to make sure to remove any crap (paint, gunk, corrosion etc..) from the previous 40 years (and also any fresh paint):
- how do you clean the holes in the head where all the head studs go through? acetone+brush?
- does somebody know the exact diameter of those holes? what drill bit should I run there?

thank you !!!
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #87   IP: 134.134.139.74
Old 03-09-2020, 03:03 PM
ronstory's Avatar
ronstory ronstory is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 404
Thanks: 106
Thanked 208 Times in 152 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post

Acetone on a rag will remove almost any paint from your hands.

ex TRUE GRIT
... not POR-15, you will need to wear it off. I now always use gloves with that stuff.
__________________
Thanks,
Ron
Portland, OR
Reply With Quote
  #88   IP: 165.225.38.211
Old 03-09-2020, 03:07 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstory View Post
... not POR-15, you will need to wear it off. I now always use gloves with that stuff.
that is what I am discovering with my black and white hands at the office! How do you clean your brushes after using POR 15? is Acetone good enough for that? Mineral Spirit failed...
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #89   IP: 69.250.111.245
Old 03-09-2020, 06:31 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
When I painted my engine, I left an old set of plugs in the head to keep the threads clean. I bet if you just screw a spark plug in and out a few times, it will clean the threads right out.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #90   IP: 134.134.137.77
Old 03-09-2020, 08:11 PM
ronstory's Avatar
ronstory ronstory is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 404
Thanks: 106
Thanked 208 Times in 152 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
that is what I am discovering with my black and white hands at the office! How do you clean your brushes after using POR 15? is Acetone good enough for that? Mineral Spirit failed...
Just discard them, I used the foam brushes and higher quality Harbor freight brushes (which is an oxymoron) and are still cheap.

Also, if you let POR-15 get in the lip of the can where the metal lid attaches, you can forget about opening it again. What I do when i open the gallon, I have the metal quart paint containers from home depot on hand. Then I paint everything I can possibly paint and then pour the remnants carefully into the fresh quart containers and seal. Good for about a year if done well.

if you are using the quarts, keep a couple of the metal pint containers on hand as well.
__________________
Thanks,
Ron
Portland, OR

Last edited by ronstory; 03-09-2020 at 08:12 PM. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
  #91   IP: 45.49.35.172
Old 03-09-2020, 09:11 PM
Ando's Avatar
Ando Ando is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 247
Thanks: 333
Thanked 58 Times in 38 Posts
My two cents and a question

$0.02: I noticed the copper scavange-type tube connector from your fuel pump to the carb. You may consider replacing that copper tube with a fuel line and a polishing filter as shown here: https://moyermarine.com/mmi360/r1.html

Question: (and forgive my ignorance) will you be painting over the POR-15? Could you if you wanted to or no?
Reply With Quote
  #92   IP: 108.34.135.205
Old 03-09-2020, 09:36 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
$0.02: I noticed the copper scavange-type tube connector from your fuel pump to the carb. You may consider replacing that copper tube with a fuel line and a polishing filter as shown here: https://moyermarine.com/mmi360/r1.html

Question: (and forgive my ignorance) will you be painting over the POR-15? Could you if you wanted to or no?
Thank you. I take all the 2 cents I can take!!

Regarding paint, yes I plan to paint over, I purchase a couple cans to MM, without even checking the detailed paint spec from POR 15, but I am pretty sure I read a couple other overhaul threads mentioning they did it without issue. This is what I found on POR website. So hopefully it will work.
https://www.por15.com/POR-15-FAQS_ep_61.html
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Surcouf For This Useful Post:
Ando (03-09-2020)
  #93   IP: 108.34.135.205
Old 03-09-2020, 09:39 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstory View Post
Just discard them, I used the foam brushes and higher quality Harbor freight brushes (which is an oxymoron) and are still cheap.

Also, if you let POR-15 get in the lip of the can where the metal lid attaches, you can forget about opening it again. What I do when i open the gallon, I have the metal quart paint containers from home depot on hand. Then I paint everything I can possibly paint and then pour the remnants carefully into the fresh quart containers and seal. Good for about a year if done well.

if you are using the quarts, keep a couple of the metal pint containers on hand as well.
Nothing beats experience, thank you! I do not remember if I let some paint on the metal lid... if I did so, I will have to get a clean one as you advice, and will drill a hole in the cap to recover the paint! I guess that is one more thing on my HD list!
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #94   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 03-10-2020, 08:42 AM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 564
Thanks: 385
Thanked 103 Times in 80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surcouf View Post
Thank you. I take all the 2 cents I can take!!

This is what I found on POR website. So hopefully it will work.
https://www.por15.com/POR-15-FAQS_ep_61.html
Please note from their FAQ about painting over - "POR-15 Tie-Coat Primer is the best prime coat to use before topcoating POR-15. "

I wouldn't do it without a proper tie coat for the POR or it might just be flaking off much sooner than one wants.
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #95   IP: 155.186.124.219
Old 03-10-2020, 10:57 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Wink Painting parts

I've always painted heads with some old plugs installed, easier than taping off.

I also "usually" place a piece of dowel or an old bolt/stud in any threaded holes, again easier than taping off.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
Ando (03-10-2020), sastanley (03-12-2020)
  #96   IP: 165.225.38.121
Old 03-15-2020, 11:40 AM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
questions

the issues and questions continue...

Question 1: How do you clean the valve guides, before installing teh valves back? What product? I have a bunch of thin brushes (Harbor Fr**ght kit), plastic and metal - which ones should I use?

Question 2: Same question for the head "through holes" where studs go through. I guess I can use metal brushes here wthout any concern (I do not care of "scoring / marking those ones as much as the valves guides)

while I was chiseling / hammering / removing rust from by block yesterday, something that looked like either JB weld / very old plug or bolt broke loose: it is located behind the alternator-accessory pulley, and is a hole going into the "water jacket compartment" (so located at the bottom left side of that compartment, if I face the water jacket side plate). I have seen on this blog several engine that had a nipple installed in that hole to flush the water system for maintenance. I tried to clean as much as I could, and passed a 5/16 tap-thread, but I am not sure if I actually cleaned previous thread, or if it was just making its way through rust concretion. So Question 3: what is the original thread for that hole? Should I install a brass plug here? what would you recommend to do here to avoid any leak?

Thank you !!!
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #97   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 03-15-2020, 09:07 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Q3:
1/8" pipe thread (NPT 1/8-27)
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #98   IP: 108.34.135.205
Old 03-15-2020, 09:27 PM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Q3:
1/8" pipe thread (NPT 1/8-27)
So this is bad. I will make a dedicated thread for that one
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)

Last edited by Surcouf; 03-15-2020 at 10:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #99   IP: 174.242.139.134
Old 03-22-2020, 11:36 AM
Surcouf's Avatar
Surcouf Surcouf is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 361
Thanks: 328
Thanked 163 Times in 123 Posts
So the compromised thread on the jacket taken care of by the machine shop, at the same time as a broken screw in the bell housing. Required to load the engine in the car again... but worth it.

So short question for you guys: pictures of valve seat with and without lapping. Is that enough? Or should I go for more lapping?
Attached Images
  
__________________
Surcouf
A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)
Reply With Quote
  #100   IP: 134.134.139.74
Old 03-22-2020, 01:14 PM
ronstory's Avatar
ronstory ronstory is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 404
Thanks: 106
Thanked 208 Times in 152 Posts
More lapping is needed. You can still see pitting on the surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8_dVrKz5BI

Look at the video at around 2:30 for the valve (not the best image) and at 3:15 for what the valve seat should look like.


I have a similar drill attachment, works great and is fast. Just remember to put lots of oil on the valve stem.

Good luck! You are now at the fun stage.

Edit: Did you have the shop cut the valve seat for you?
__________________
Thanks,
Ron
Portland, OR

Last edited by ronstory; 03-22-2020 at 01:16 PM. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gasoila E-seal pipe thread sealant Elizabeth_B29 Fuel System 3 03-09-2015 06:42 PM
Getting nautical. Hopefully not an epic overhaul thread. The Garbone Overhaul 17 01-21-2014 05:21 PM
Seapadrik's Overhaul Thread seapadrik Overhaul 1 05-11-2011 08:59 AM
Thread Display Options Administrator Announcements 0 01-02-2010 01:24 PM
Replace it? Overhaul it? Overhaul it! Motor John Overhaul 0 08-15-2006 01:41 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved