atomic 4 coil problem

[Sam]

Everyone should be careful here. He has a 1969 A4 and I would guess this is an 'early model" with the smaller prestolite distributor. You can easily tell if the condenser is hanging from the side wall rather than on the plate. If this is true the timing starts with the rotor pointing directly aft at TDC and is pointing at the number one distributor position. From there the cylinder 1-2-4-3 sequence clockwise starts.

Now, this is a guess with out a picture but the early model distributor is " loosened " differently than the late models. The early model has a hold screw for mounting the dizzy but not for adjusting it. instead about half way down there is a HORIZONTAL screw bolt and a nut/clamp arrangement that has to be slightly loosened to rotate the distributor. I strongly suggest you slightly loosen the bolt with a long screw driver and or a 3/8 in [I think] socket on an extension with the engine off before you attempt to power time. Timing light not really needed since there is no stock degree marks [which gets into a whole different area].

There is some info in the Moyer tech tips but not a lot of info on the early model issues in the videos. Hope this helps. Sam

[srizzoa4]

John Cookson, The number one wire comes off at the 6:00 position (towards the flywheel). When piston number one (spark plug closest to the fly wheel) is at TDC, the rotor is pointed at the block.

I attached 2 pics. One shows the rotor pointed at the block which I a calling the 3:00 position. This is where the rotor is when I think cylinder #1 is at TDC. I will re-check this tomorrow and also be sure the pins on the shaft are straight up and down as I saw in Dan Moyer's video. THe second shows the firing order. It's easy to see that the #1 wire has a black rubber right angle cap on both ends. This goes to the 6:00 position. Going clockwise then, #2 is at 9:00, #4 is at 12:00 and #3 is at 3:00. This really doesn't make any sense to me if #1 is TDC with the rotor in the 3:00 position. It seems to run OK this way, but logic says it really shouldn't. Sorry for rambling.

A link to see the engine run is here: https://youtu.be/I9IdkOjwWJA

[Sam]

I wrote my note before I saw John's helpful pictorial. I think this problem can be easily solved if you first determine which distributor you have and then start appropriately. I have heard but never seen that some" hybrids" could exist that have early model's with late model distributors with some conversions?? Hope this is not your case and you have a stock early model.

[JOHN COOKSON]

The wire to #1 cylinder spark plug can come from any of the four towers in the distributor cap. The rotor need to be pointing to that terminal when #1 is at (or near) TDC compression. If you want to change the terminal on the distributor cap for #1 spark plug rotate the distributor. The only problem I see doing this is that the spark plug wires will be to long or short. Have a look at Jerry's picture.
If I understanding correctly your distributor is rotated 90 degrees from "normal" or "stock".
BTW - Got the stuck bolt soaking in PB Blaster?

ex TRUE GRIT

[srizzoa4]

second attempt to post pics

I attached 2 pics. One shows the rotor pointed at the block which I am calling the 3:00 position. This is where the rotor is when I think cylinder #1 is at TDC. I will re-check this tomorrow and also be sure the pins on the shaft are straight up and down as I saw in Dan Moyer's video. The second shows the firing order. It's easy to see that the #1 wire has a black rubber right angle cap on both ends. This goes to the 6:00 position. Going clockwise then, #2 is at 9:00, #4 is at 12:00 and #3 is at 3:00. This really doesn't make any sense to me if #1 is TDC with the rotor in the 3:00 position. It seems to run OK this way, but logic says it really shouldn't.

[srizzoa4]

I was able to remove the retaining clip for the dizzy. I left the junction of the dizzy and the accessory drive soaking in PB blaster overnight. I'm hopeful that I will be able to turn it. It was completely frozen yesterday. Should I force it with channel locks? Would there be a retaining clip and a set screw as SAM states? I was told by Ken at Moyer that it is a late model. I think it's an AC Delco distributor, but it isn't exactly like in the pics as the alignment tab is not the same as in ROADNSKY's pic.

Utterly baffled as to why this engine runs.

[edwardc]

Keep in mind that, wherever the rotor points at #1 TDC, that's where the #1 plug wire should go.

The 3:00 o'clock or 9:00 o'clock position is only convention. Where the rotor ends up at #1 TDC is determined by the meshing/phasing of the bevel gears at the base of the distributor shaft.

Think of it this way: With the engine at #1 TDC and the distributor removed, you could replace it with the rotor positioned anywhere. That would become the new location for the #1 plug wire.

[Dave Neptune]

I have been a mechanic most of my life and ALMOST EVERY engine I "timed" while doing an R&R of the distributor I have seldom ever found the distributor
pointing" where the factory setting was.

Timing is not set by the factory position by most mechanics as they would not even bother to look up where it was supposed to be from the factory as it is just easier to drop the distributor in while #1 IS ON TDC and then work from where the rotor is pointing.

The direction the factory spec points at was for nothing other than mass production making everything the same on the production line.

I personally think it is a dis-service to post as those who do not understand "timing" think they have a problem if the rotor points in another direction when it is actually just fine~~IMHO.

Dave Neptune

[Sam]

Folks, to avoid confusion forget my comments. From the posted pics you have a late model engine and Delco dizzy. [I would have thought a 1969 would be "early model"]. My comments were for early models. The fact that the distributor is larger with condenser on plate and a cap held in place with screws rather than side snap clips indicates Delco vs Prestolite. The groups previous comments are on target.