old boat..new owner..needs tlc..might as well start a thread about it and its A4

[Don Moyer]

The sensing lead connects to the negative terminal of the coil and the power lead connects to any source of switched power (like the ignition switch itself).

Don

[sastanley]

Thanks!

Thanks, I used your manual to figure out which terminals were which. My tach is a little suspect, but I did get some readings out of it.

I took the boat out for a spin last evening, as I had a buddy on board to help tie up and swim home with me if the boat sank

It seems I can't get the engine to run much faster than 1,200 RPM in gear without it running horribly, and vibrating a lot. Out of gear it revs up well over 2,000 RPM. In gear, it starts to miss and run funny above 1,150 or so..I have a friend with dive gear that I might be able to jump over the side and clean the prop..I have no idea how much it is fouled. Then I can run a few more tests before hauling for the winter.

I also installed the new plug wires today, and when running the engine and pulling one wire at a time, #3 seems to produce the smallest change in engine behavior, and noticeably different than the other cylinders (i.e. running on 3 rather than 4 cylinders) - I think maybe I need to try a different compression tester.

In reverse the thing sounds great, which doesn't make a lot of sense..is the reversing gear further reduced from the fwd gear, so that there isn't as much load on the engine?

[jhwelch]

The gearing in reverse (in my experience) is not 1:1, so if you really need
to back up hard you will run your engine faster than you do/can in forwards.

-jonathan

[sastanley]

I had a buddy with dive gear come over and clean the prop...now we are talking!!!!! The engine behaves in a completely different manner..I'll post more details when I have time, but in addition to the work I've already done...one of the major issues was a fouled propeller. (remember I have stepped into this boat mostly blind.)
The other thing I think I realized is the tach is not built for an ignition with points...dunno if that affects things or not - so I guess that any readings above are bogus. I'll figure this all out eventually.

I even saw a stern wave today under power...that's something new!

[sastanley]

reverse & other thoughts

I think I am going to check the adjustments on the gearing. I have a very small 'window' where the prop is not turning to some extent. I also seem to need two hands to get it out of forward gear..It has to be a controlled jerk to get it out without jamming into the reversing gear.

Some other thoughts as well..these involve our favorite elixir, MMO.

I took the boat for an extended spin (since extended is subjective, about 1 hour or so) in the creek after the prop cleaning this weekend. When running at slightly below what I'd call cruising speed, say 3.5-4 knots, there was some bluish smoke coming out of the exhaust, that I didn't notice at speeds closer to idle..would a high enough concentration of MMO in the fuel cause this? I am running a little bit rich on the MMO mixture right now, I would guess about 3 oz. per gallon of fuel, in the hopes of lubing up things real good towards the end of the season..maybe I put in a bit too much.

Also, how often does everyone do an "MMO treatment" and squirt some juice in the cylinders? It would seem if I have the time, it might be good to do this every chance you get. I will probably haul the boat in a couple of weeks, so I am thinking I'll try to get 2 or 3 more MMO treatments in to loosen/lube everything up as much as possible, then if I have the opportunity, I'll winterize the motor in the travel-lift slip..otherwise, I'll try to figure out some way to tap in a garden hose and winterize on shore, although I dunno how much engine running I'd like to be doing on the hard.

Oh, and thanks to everyone for posting pics and details in their own threads..I am learning something new every day!

[msauntry]

I can tell how foul my bottom and prop is by my maximum speed. With everything clean I can reach 6.2 kts. With a little bit of slime on the bottom and 6-10 small to medium size barnacles on the prop (mostly by the hub) I'll see 5.8 kts. We get lots of light wind days on the Ches. Bay so a clean bottom is a must for me. Your results will vary, but the process is the same. Next spring, measure your maximum speed right after launch.

MMO is 8oz. per 10 gallons of gas, or until you see it smoke. That's double the recommendation on the bottle. Since you are seeing smoke, go ahead and cut back to 4oz. per 10 gallons of gas. Hopefully that will clear it up.

My engine intake thru hull goes to a T-fitting before the strainer. It is capped with a garden hose threaded bronze fitting, so I can close the thru hull and hook up a section of garden hose. I then fill a five gallon bucket with water and dunk the hose in it. With this arrangement you can run your engine on land all you like over the winter.

[rigspelt]

... how often does everyone do an "MMO treatment" and squirt some juice in the cylinders? It would seem if I have the time, it might be good to do this every chance you get. I will probably haul the boat in a couple of weeks, so I am thinking I'll try to get 2 or 3 more MMO treatments in to loosen/lube everything up as much as possible, then if I have the opportunity, I'll winterize the motor in the travel-lift slip..otherwise, I'll try to figure out some way to tap in a garden hose and winterize on shore, although I dunno how much engine running I'd like to be doing on the hard.

I am not an engine expert and I am new to the A4, but while you are waiting for more reliable opinion, perhaps my amateur take might be of interest -- like you, I'm still tyring to make sense of it all.

1. I came to the conclusion after reading all the points of view about MMO that the trick might be to use just enough, not too much or too little. I gather that modern oils now have helpful additives in them that were not present in oils back in the day. At this point, though I could be pursuaded to change my approach, I look at it as a treatment I will reserve for a specific purpose. I plan to keep putting a couple of squirts into each cylinder during winterizing, unless I get some indication of stuck valves, or if I suspect crud buildup from lack of maintenance. But my engine's compressions are good, so I might only do one fuel tank treatment when I finally get the boat in the water, on the blind assumption that I am cleaning out what might be there from before I bought the boat last spring.

2. Running the A4 on the hard is easy, I find. (Much easier than those big twin Mercs I used to have! -- maybe that's why I'm having so much fun with this little A4.) Since there is no "T" in my cooling water intake line, I pull the intake hose off the intake seacock and stick it in a bucket on the floor of the the cockpit locker, along with a garden hose running into the bucket. I put a simple levered valve on the end of the garden hose (any hardware store garden section) that allows me to fine tune the flow from the garden hose into the bucket, so it matches the water being sucked into the engine. I usually post a friend at the bucket to watch it for me, so he can start the water flowing into the engine when the engine starts, and ensure the bucket doesn't overflow or get sucked dry, allowing me to concentrate on the engine. For winterizing a few weeks ago, I just put the RV antifreeze in the bucket, turned on the engine, let the engine suck it through per Don's excellent winterizing notes, and shut down the engine. I definitely plan to install a T in the new intake line to make this even slicker. Then, when I finally get the boat in the water, I'll also be able to routinely flush freshwater through the heat exchanger and manifold back at the dock after running in salt water.

[Jesse Delanoy]

Stanley,

Install a t-connection to your water intake hose, with a ball valve to open and close the new, open-ended hose going into the tee - you'll love yourself for it when it's time to suck in some antifreeze, fresh water (I do this after every trip, to flush out the brackish water), vinegar or muriatic acid (for acid flushes), or just for running the engine while on the hard.

Jesse Delanoy

s/v Agape (anticipating name change to Off The Grid, with full hull refinishing now underway!)
Baltimore

[sastanley]

Update

Went over to the boat today! - I had to meet the family after my daughter finished high school sailing practice so I was limited in time, but I had a list!

Planning to haul the boat next week (already scheduled) - so I made a pre-haul checklist:

Ran the engine for a while in gear and got her warmed up. thermostat varies from 140 - 190F during cycles.

Put on a new tach - Tied to the slip I can get about 1,900 RPM...not too bad I think. Idle at about 800. From listening and comparing to the last excursion away from the slip cruising RPM seems to be about 16-1700 RPM...again..this was at the dock, so we'll see what we can do when the boat is not bound up in the slip.

Checked the timing - Set motor to about 1,500 RPM and fiddled with the dizzy..no real revelation..just adjusted it for max RPM at that throttle setting.

Oil pressure has been low...the P.O. never bothered to adjust since it was 'not zero'...cleaned up the adjustment bolt, got it loose and made a 1/2 turn adjustment...got it to about 20 PSI at 1,500 RPM...sometimes it was less then 10 PSI...so that is good for me, for now..at least the adjustment made a positive impact.

Oil - Pumped out 26(ish) oz. of oil from the pan, and added 26(ish) oz. of MMO. Ran the motor for 1 hour. I plan to do a proper/complete oil change in the travel lift slip just before the boat is hauled next week. I figured 2 total hours with some MMO in the crankcase was OK. 26-ish oz. came from guessing on 1 quart, and adding MMO until the dipstick was back to full...not quite 1 quart.

Did an MMO treatment to the upper cyls. after motor ran... figure might as well get another one in before hauling.

Plan after hauling..take the carb home and clean..order a new "Moyer bowl" for the mech fuel pump (I think this one is orig from 1977!) and add new fuel lines and filters...and also clean up the motor a little bit..she currently runs a lot better than she looks!

-Shawn

[rigspelt]

Shawn - Consider ordering a "Universal Atomic 4" coffee mug from MMI. I find I can think through engine stuff much better now, sipping coffee from that mug. Doubles as a manual: it's got some useful tune-up data on the back too. All in Universal bronze, of course.

[sastanley]

rigspelt...good idea...I'll add it to the list once I've completed it!

It will give me some incentive to clean up the motor..there isn't much 'universal bronze' left anywhere on the engine right now.

I wonder if Don sells "flaky black crud" colored mugs?

[sastanley]

update time

the wife and I got the boat into the travel lift slip this evening...except for the 20-30 knots in our face heading up the creek (fortunately it is protected so no waves) we were able to get there without much trouble. Waves concern me since there is NO fuel filter in the boat.

Anyway, with a good tach installed for some RPM readings, I was able to cruise at about 1,600 RPM with the engine running well. Push the throttle and it gets to about 1,800 RPM and starts running a little rough...slight miss and loss of power. I wonder if the valve and compression problems my father reported are the culprit, or this could be an ignition problem, or even a fuel problem? Today with the wind and necessity of making it to the marina for hauling tomorrow, it wasn't the time to mess with the engine, or fiddle with timing while my wife was on deck freezing (clawing off a lee shore or any shore when the motor fails from me messing with it, in 20 knots, etc.), so I just took it easy and was happy with 4 knots when we got it, and content with 2 or 3 knots in the wind.

I changed the oil (managed to remove almost 4 quarts), and pinched the bypass and sucked in antifreeze until I saw pink spitting out the exhaust. The problem today was it was about 50 degrees here on the Chesapeake and the water temp is 58 or so, and I never got the engine to open the thermostat...it never got hotter than about 140..so not much water drained out of the block/manifold, etc..but I pinched off the bypass and sucked 6 quarts of antifreeze in anyway.

OH..by the way...5/8" hose is right...1/2" is too small. - I cut a 2" piece off my intake and stuffed the 1/2" hose inside to feed the antifreeze..worked pretty well, since I'll be replacing all hoses, etc.. this winter anyway. Another thing I noticed was the poor condition of the intake for the water pump...looking pretty bad..will definitely need to be replacing some brass hose barbs and fittings this winter as well.

Once she's on the hard, I'll do another compression test, and then an MMO treatment to hold her over for the winter!

Then it will be pulling the carb to take it home, adding a fuel filter, and all the other things on my list...maybe electronic ignition so I don't have to mess with the points. I'll have to prioritize my list some, as this is all definitely being done on a budget!
ready for hauling!

[sastanley]

more update time

Finished winterizing the motor today with an MMO treatment into the cylinders. I did a compression test beforehand, just to see how things are going...90-95-90-95. Pretty sweet

Took the carb off and brought it home, so I can clean it out..it was one of those things 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' deals this fall, since I only expected to putz around the creek for a couple of hours prior to hauling.

Something funny I noticed today...the 'vented loop' in the wet hose to the exhaust is not really a vented loop. The 'loop' has a hose that connects to the sink drain. Weird.. I'll have to take a pic with the camera..the good news is, I can probably just remove that hose and add a proper vented loop into it without much re-routing.

on a side note: the hull is in much better shape than I expected..I was thinking I was going to have to remove the 30 years worth of paint, repair a pile of blisters and do a barrier coat. I think for next year, I'll just scrape the loose crap off, and paint, and can put that money towards other boat system's maintenance. If the Admiral and I decide to keep the boat for few years, we can think about things like a fresh bottom, etc. later on.

Motor plans this winter:
new fuel line from tank
fuel filters
new fuel pump bowl
all new hoses
new wet exhaust hose
replace any corroded fittings
Maybes:
pull alternator and water jacket access plate to inspect water jacket
replace that pseudo-loop I talked about above

I did a 'virtual cart' the other day at MMI of 'off-the-top-off-my-head-list' and it came up to about $200. Not too bad!

-Shawn

[Mark S]

Not shabby at all. Don't forget new alternator belts. I plan to replace the OEM alternator with a 55 amp alternator and install electronic ignition. I haven't done points and condensers and dwell meters since my 1967 Olds 442 and I'm too old to go back now. If the condition of the plugs I pulled when winterizing didn't convince me, the recent threads about adjusting points did.

Mark

[sastanley]

alts & carbs

Mark,
Thanks for the reminder..you just jogged my memory that I have a buddy with Catalina 30, hull #2276. We were chatting about (imagine) Catalina 30s this past weekend. He has already repowered with a diesel, but kept some of his old A4 stuff..the 55 amp alternator was one of them and he offered it up for free, so I'll put on a new belt with that.

Electronic ignition is on the list..I read another thread that said the way Moyer sends out the kit, you can remove all the 'manual' parts and slap the ignitor assembly right in there..then in the (hopefully unlikely) event of failure, you could always revert to the points. My first car was a '78 Civic with points. The set screw used to slip, and on more than one occasion I was on the side of the road fiddling with the damn thing trying to get the points to open up again so I could get home!

I took the carb apart last night..oh boy..the fuel was nasty in there. I ran out of carb cleaner just trying to get all the grit and gunk out of the float bowl. I am now wondering if that was another contributing factor to the poor running conditions at higher RPM?

(note to self) - need to add carb gasket(s) to MMI parts order!