We live in Freeport Maine...

[Dave Neptune]

Gem555, we all have great little motors that run and get us out and back when we need to do so. The A-4 is still a good marine engine. The reason it is hard to find a mechanic is because mechanics are no longer taught diagnosis as diagnosis is now plug in and read ~ the A-4 is "set and go".

This forum is not to find mechanics but to get the members able to keep the A-4 tuned and running reliably. Mine was a frozen motor when I bought it. The PO stated that it was done and a replacement was "NECESSARY". One week later the A-4 was spinning on her own and ran for me for another 35 years trouble free until I bought a bigger boat.

Dave Neptune

[edwardc]

All I’m telling you is that I have an A4. It doesn’t start. ...

OK, then lets try to figure out what's going on. We will need a little more information. Since you indicated that you had the engine running for 5 hours, I'm going to assume that the starter motor works. That is, when you try to start, the engine turns over but doesn't run on it's own. (please correct me if I'm wrong).

So, already, we've eliminated one whole area as the problem.

... In the first case the engine ran for 5 hours then failed. ...

So, how did it fail? Did it die abruptly, like someone flipped a switch? Or did it sputter and miss and run rougher and rougher until it stopped? The first case is usually a symptom of an electrical problem in the ignition system, while the second one is indicative of a fuel problem.

The second, the engine doesn’t run at all. I don’t know where to go next with this.
The head got rebuilt over the winter - mechanic B pulled the heads and said he found a stuck valve. We had that fixed and the valves lapped. Hope that helps. ...

A stuck valve is a common problem with these engines, usually caused corrosion from by allowing water to back up into the cylinders via the exhaust system. To avoid this, you should always try to start your engine with the cooling water valve CLOSED until the engine starts. Prolonged cranking with the valve open will cause water to back up.
But the A4 is a robust little engine. It will start and run on only 3 or even 2 cylinders (although poorly). So a single stuck valve is unlikely to be your "no start" problem.

...What is starting ether

Starting Ether (AKA starting fluid) is a spray can containing a highly volatile fuel (Ether or Hexane). It is used as a diagnostic tool. You spray a little directly into the air intake on the carb and try to start. If the problem is fuel, the engine will briefly roar to life as the Ether is consumed, and then quit. If the problem is something other than fuel, it will make no difference.


If the boat has set for a long time without use, a strong possibility is that the fuel is bad or dirty. One way to eliminate this is to run from a separate outboard tank temporarily to eliminate the main tank as the source of the problem.

There are lots of simple possibilities, but we need a little more info to help weed them out.

So, even if you don't feel you have the ability to work on this engine, we can provide you with information to help whoever works on it. One of your best bets would be to locate another A4 owner nearby.

Don't give up!

[joe_db]

Go to your local tractor dealer, tell them you have an old 4 cylinder universal tractor engine, they can help.

While plenty of old tractors have flathead inline 4 engines and people that can fix them would feel at home with an A4, the Atomic 4 engine itself NEVER was used in any kind of land vehicle including tractors. Just FYI

[joe_db]

I get the OPs frustration. Someone at work without a boat asked me if there was such a thing as "Honda" boats that just run for years with no maintenance involved other an oil change. I had to disappoint him, there really is no such thing and not at the airport either. I knew a guy that got tired of fixing 40 year old airplanes, bought a new one, and said he NEVER had so many problems with the old ones as now
Also, if you are used to cars, a new boat has an engine warranty from the engine builder, the electronics was warrantied from their manufacturer, and so on. What - you thought it was a car and the dealer would just fix it
* this is actually a common progression with new powerboat owners. They see a runabout with low payments and no money down. It is fun for awhile, but soon enough it has issues and it ends up in the yard collecting leaves and then goes on Craigslist with a tree growing in it.

[tenders]

Every single thing on a boat is a compromise. Everything. The closest thing to a turnkey cruising sailboat is a Caribbean charter; everything else requires some willingness to roll up your sleeves or perhaps you’re in the wrong part of this recreational water sport. Outboards, inboards, diesels, A4s, sailboats, powerboats...the engine experiences are not that different from each other. Everybody with a boat complains about either how incompetent their mechanics are or how busy they are because they’re competent. Letting engines sit unmaintained in their caves with a see-no-evil mindset will eventually cause them to fail. Either way, your familiarity with your own propulsion system can be 90% of the difference between using it or waiting for somebody to fix it for you.

As others have mentioned, the odds are very high that your non starting problem is one of a handful of common problems that rank amateurs can resolve with a minimum of tools, cost, or expertise. My vote would be a fuel problem that you can fix yourself in less time than you spend chasing down and communicating with a mechanic who actually shows up. A little information on the situation can go a long way.

I have to wonder how two mechanics managed to get themselves paid without the problem getting fixed? Clearly they’re good at something!

[Whippet]

basic check list

Not to minimize your issue - it would appear prudent to at least run through a basic checklist of what to do with a no-start.

The attached deals with unexpected shut-down (not exactly your case) but running through this list sure narrows source of issue.

http://www.moyerphoto.com/moyermarineNL/2-1-14.html

A few other basics is to make sure choke fully engages (can be examined by removing flame arestor).

[roadnsky]

We have spent a fair amount of money on two professional mechanics...
Both have failed completely.

There is your biggest issue.
Not the A4.

I am simply not smart enough to fix the engine, we usually address that limitation by having a motor in tip-top shape at all times.

I can speak from experience...
When I first got my boat the A4 was in basically fair shape but had a bunch of issues. ALL of them because of poor (or no) maintenance.
After a water pump failure, I hired a Marine Mechanic to come fix it.
After 2 hours at $90 per hour, he couldn't even get the pump off the engine.

I knew absolutely nothing about engines and then found this forum.
I asked questions (most of them dumb ones) and received nothing but helpful and easy to understand advice.
NO flameouts or smarmy answers. Just truly caring and helpful info.
You've already seen that in this very thread. Guys trying to help you.

After heeding the advice and direction, I have a smooth running and completely trustworthy engine.
Starts every time. Runs like a sewing machine.

If you want a motor "in tip-top shape" that you can depend on, you've found it.

[joe_db]

$180 to not be able to find 2 bolts

[wristwister]

Gem555,

Hopefully the fine folks here haven't made you leave in despair. I know you were just looking for recommendations of someone who could make your A4 all better, and instead you got lots of DIY advice.

I fully agree with what everyone is telling you, if you want to enjoy your older A4 powered sailboat, and ~$15K for a diesel repower isn't in the cards, then you really should learn a bit about that engine and get your hands dirty.

But ... a third option is to just find another good A4 out there and do an engine swap. Fortunately, the Catalina 30 is about the easiest boat to do such a swap in. Find a good running, or freshly rebuilt A4 and have your boat yard swap it in.

Oh, lookee there, a rebuilt A4 in your neck of the woods for $2500: https://maine.craigslist.org/bpo/d/r...576861602.html

[roadnsky]

$180 to not be able to find 2 bolts

He couldn't figure out the lower bolt.
Took me an hour or so on this forum and then another hour or so of knuckle busting and I had it off.
That's one reason I'm such a big fan of that MMI EXTENDED lower bolt!

[Antibes]

If you want your A4 to be reliable, the addition of some upgrades to the original design go a long way toward reliability and easier maintenance. Whether done by you or a professional

electronic ignition with proper new coil
water strainer in water intake line, freshwater cooling
water fuel separator AND inline fuel filter

Most problems on these motors are very simple.

[ndutton]

Guys, your intentions are honorable but I think GEM made it clear more than once he had zero interest in dealing with the engine issues himself. I appreciate it's not our way but I think there comes a time when we have to accept it's his way.

[thatch]

Over the nine years that I have owned my Catalina 30, I have replaced, repaired or serviced just about all things A4. One of the most difficult of the projects was removing that lower water pump bolt. In the case of mine, it was like unscrewing a carriage bolt from the head end. Like Jerry, I laid on my side for what seemed like an hour before I was able to "cold chisel" some rotation out of that ***** bolt. Almost all of the work has been done "proactively" rather than
"reactively", not wanting to wait for any of the "30+" year old systems to fail. One of the parts that I'm talking about is the block electrical connector that is or was burried somewhere under the engine in virtually all C-30s. This is just speculation, but this may very easily be at the heart of Gem's problem. I'm sure that there are many qualified mechanics around that are not even aware of the existence of that corrosion prone connector.
Tom

[tenders]

I am seeing Neil’s wisdom here. The first steps of Zen and the Art of Anything that Must be Maintained are the beliefs that problems can be fixed, and that you can understand how to fix them.

Without those core beliefs, the next step, that you can actually fix them, is not relevant.

We cannot presume those beliefs.

[sastanley]

Seems like GEM gave up from the result of two bad mechanics...too bad..

edit - It has only been two days..maybe he'll come back and get invigorated. C'mon, GEM, we can help you, but you will need some GoJo hand cleaner when you are done!! If you are not willing to get your hands dirty, then good luck, sir.