Hoisting the engine

[sastanley]

Bill, looking good...at work, pretty much any outside hosted pictures are blocked, so I am finally getting to view them at home. Wood boxes are easy to replace!!

Those PAR pumps are nice, but as Lat64 commented, those manual Whale pumps are sought after as well. My stepfather has one of each on his Tartan 3000.

I don't quite have the heart to cut a big enough hole in the boat for the Whale pump yet, but I am working on it...the gray cylinder bicycle style pump I have now as my manual would never keep up with a serious breech.

[ILikeRust]

Tempting fate, I will say that the bilge is amazingly tight and dry in my boat. The only water ever in it appears to come only from the various leaking deck hardware when it rains - and the leaking head gasket on the engine.

There is just an inch or two of water in the lowest point, and that's it. There never is enough for the bilge pump to even pick up. Just out of routine, I turn the pump on, it goes "gurgle gurgle", nothing comes out, and I turn it off.

The previous owner told me that was his experience with the boat for the eight years he owned it - a very dry bilge, to the point that you practically don't need a bilge pump at all.

Of course, I'm not going to be foolish and go without one.

The problem I have is that what passes for a "bilge" on my boat is a very narrow space down in the keel. So you can't fit a standard submersible, automatic bilge pump down in there. I need either a pump that can self-prime and suck up water via a hose, or a very skinny little pump that can squeeze down in that small space. Or maybe a couple small pumps like that.

[diver53207]

I recently pulled my A4 from my 27' O'Day and was also very worried about concentrating the load in such a small spot on the boom. I used the nylon coated braided steel wire that would be similar to that used in a bicycle locking cable and attached eyes to both ends. I wrapped this around my boom and then attached the main halyard directly to the windings around the boom. ( it was wrapped three times) I attached a come-a-long to eyes and to the A4. This put almost all the weight on the halyard and not on the boom. Makes sure you buy a come-a-long long enough for your needs. As once I tied off the halyard I did not move it for an up/down adjustment only a side to side. Hope it helps!

[lat 64]

Bill,
Cool, just let me know how much. Get a dependable replacement first for sure.
64n147watsymbolgmaildottkom

On my little ship I have installed:
one new small Rule bilge pump(automatic),
one old "overhauled" PAR pump(automatic),
and a big bucket.

To be installed:
one Whale hand pump,
an extra pick up hose with; ball valve teed to raw-water intake, and screened foot,
maybe Bill's old pump,
and another big bucket.

The first rule of boating; keep the water out.

Russ

Oh, and let's not forget the shower sump pump (not installed yet)

[Marian Claire]

I smell another poll. What kind of de-watering devices do you have and do you know they work? Dan S/V Marian Claire
And welcome Diver

[ILikeRust]

Ze deed, she is done.

I decided to go ahead and pay the boatyard to use their crane and experienced guys to hoist my engine out, rather than figure out a DIY solution. I figured this way, if something bad happened, it would be theirs and not mine, and since my time is pretty limited anyhow, it would be much quicker (and safer).

Today was the only day they could fit me in other than two or more weeks away, and I didn't want to lose the next couple weekends to get to work on the engine. So I had to play hooky from work and hang out in the cold and rain. It is a pretty miserable day today.

Anyhow, on with the pics -

Last time I went up and worked on the boat on the hard (which was my first time working on her on the hard), I brought a 6' stepladder, which turned out to be insufficient, so this time I brought a 12' folding ladder, which worked perfectly (although it was cold and rainy).



I took measurements off the engine and very quickly cobbled together this little cradle out of scrap lumber:



I had to wait around for a while, but the guys finally came over with the crane and they moved so fast, I hardly had time to snap any photos.





Continued...

[ILikeRust]

And here is the engine compartment, looking very much like a bloody, empty tooth socket:



YEEECCCCCHHH!!! What a mess. Water, oil, mud, gunk.... blecccch.

Looks like I've got my work cut out for me cleaning up all that mess.

BUT -

Here is the most interesting development.

I have a buddy who has a beat up old sailboat that's been on the hard for a couple years - he bought it as a project boat but now wants to just get rid of it. The reason he bought it was because the old guy he bought it from had put a brand new Volvo diesel engine in it. The story is that the old guy bought the engine, factory brand new, in 1999 or 2000 and installed it in the boat. He then used it for two seasons and then became ill and couldn't use the boat anymore. The boat sat in his yard for five years and then he decided to get rid of it and my buddy bought it for $1,200. The engine cost $7,000 new (my buddy has the receipts) and has less than 200 hours on it. The boat also came with "a whole mess" of sails. According to my buddy, it has lots of sails and they're all good - but he gutted the interior, as he was going to re-do the whole thing.

When I told him I had just pulled my engine and was going to overhaul it, he suggested I take the engine from his boat and offered me his whole boat, engine, sails and all for $1,000. He's currently paying only $65/month to keep it on the hard in a boatyard, and he's just paid for the next three months.

I'm thinking this probably is too good a deal to pass up. I figure if I want to sell my boat in 6 or 8 or 10 years or whatever, it will be easier to sell with a 20 year-old, low-hour Volvo diesel in it than a 40 year-old rebuilt Atomic 4 gas engine with unkown hours on it.

Plus, I figure I can sell my engine (plus all the parts I just purchased from Moyer for my expected rebuild ) to offset the cost, and also, after I yank out the diesel, I can sell his boat for a couple hundred bucks - the sails alone would be worth it. I figure somebody who wants a rough boat to just go bang around in can hang an outboard off the back and take it out for a sail. If I get a couple hundred bucks out of it, the diesel will be practically free.

Of course, it will require me to figure out the connection from the engine to the prop shaft and the engine beds and stuff, but I figure that's all doable - I'm certainly not the first person to repower an old sailboat with a modern diesel engine.

But the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking this might be the way to go.

[lat 64]

good deal

Get your buddy to fire up the diesel first.

Also, find out what it would cost to have a boat hauled off to the dump. That would be the worst case scenario.

What kind of boat? maybe some of us bottom feeders could buy the incidental part or two.

[ILikeRust]

He had a diesel mechanic come out last year and fire it up, and he said it ran fine. He also said we would go up there and have it fired up again before we did anything as far as transacting the deal. But he is very confident it's a very good engine. It does seem to make sense to me to put a 10 year-old, essentially new diesel in, rather than a 30 year-old, rather worn gas engine.

[ILikeRust]

Oh, and I'm not sure what the boat is. I saw it once briefly - it's got bilge keels, I know that.

[ndutton]

Bill,

I understand your logic but be prepared for:

1. New fuel tank with fuel return port.
2. New deck fill plate identified 'Diesel.'
3. New throttle and shift control.
4. New throttle and shift cables.
5. New kill cable assembly.
6. New exhaust hot section.
7. Possible bigger exhaust hose and thru-hull.
8. Possible bigger waterlift muffler.
9. New or reworked engine panel.
10. New prop shaft.
11. New prop.
12. Earmuffs
13. Clothes pin for your nose

Some of these may be salvageable from the donor boat, some may not. That 'free' engine might turn out to be not so free after all.

Regarding disposal of the donor boat, you might inquire with the local fire department. Maybe you could donate it to them for a firefighting exercise.

[ILikeRust]

Hmm.... which makes me think of another potential issue: finding marinas that have diesel. It's hard enough finding marine gas sometimes.

I'm wondering if a small diesel would be much louder or smellier than the A4.

One thing I don't like is giving up the simplicity of the A4 engine. I know I can fix pretty much anything on the A4. I don't know anywhere near as much about a diesel engine. I mean, I know the principle on how they operate and such, but I've never taken one apart. I've opened up a bunch of gasoline engines - 2-stroke and 4-stroke. So I'd either have to give myself an education on diesel engines or rely on a good diesel mechanic (cha-ching!$$).

Much investigating to do...

[ndutton]

Those are all things you need to determine for yourself. I can offer a viewpoint on this though:

I'm wondering if a small diesel would be much louder or smellier than the A4.

I recently went out on a friend's 3 cyl. diesel powered Catalina 30. Standing in the galley preparing lunch underway with the engine running, I could not hear what the skipper was saying from the helm less than 6 feet away.

I can add that at the slip when my A-4 is idling it cannot be heard from the dock. Other small diesel powered sailboats can be heard 3 docks away.

[Laker]

Rust ,

To be added to all the well founded comments already made regarding your decision to re-power/not re-power :

Consider , realistically , the scale and degree of difficulty of the project. To clean up and improve the installation you already have (the nasty tooth socket) is tinker toys ; wire by wire , hose by hose doable. The re-power will require numerous new parts , systems , and one-offs. Doable , yes , but exponentially more difficult that the renovation of your existing equipment.

I know this from my experience with my spar conversion. I had no IDEA until I was a$$ deep into it. I am not saying that the conversion is a bad idea , I am saying look before you leap.

(I gotta admit , if I were you I'd be sorely tempted!)

Good luck ,

Laker

[ILikeRust]

Yeah, upon further reflection and consideration last night, I'm thinking it probably does just make more sense overall to stick with Plan A.

I've got enough work ahead of me just cleaning that mess up and figuring out all the wiring and hoses and such - and taking care of all the other projects I've got planned for the boat - without having to cut out the engine beds and figure out new ones, and do everything else that would be required for the re-power - let alone going up to the Northern Neck, where my buddy's boat is, and pulling out his engine, and then having to dispose of the boat.

The A4 is such a dirt simple engine - I can fix anything on it myself. Not so sure about the diesel. I mean, yeah, I know how diesels work, but I've never dug into one. I'd have to give myself an education on the Volvo, and I've already done that (and am continuing to do so) on the A4. Given how reliable the little Atomic is, and how well it runs (even with 2 quarts of water in the crankcase! ), it's kinda hard to justify ditching it now. I figure if it works, why mess with it? And this one has worked just fine in this boat for the past 27 years.

Of course, all of that might change when I open up the engine - we'll have to see what I find in there.