Winterizing - T-Valve, Bypass, and Procedure

[Mattlurzo]

Happy New Year!

I've read great posts about winterizing, and I think I'm ready to give it a go. I am new to owning an engine (got the boat in September and running in October) and still only have basic knowledge, so I am just making sure I understand this and what I'm looking at. Any help would be very much appreciated.

I've attached an image of the engine serial number and model, if that helps. Sorry the pictures are sideways!

The 2nd image shows what I think to be the T-Valve (looks like a garden hose attachment). It's after the raw water intake and before the strainer. Am I correct that that this is where I attach the hose to the bucket with the anti-freeze/water mix?

The last picture shows the thermostat and the line running to it. There is no valve there. I have read that I need to remove the thermostat and pinch off the hose/line running to it. But I've also seen that I should run anti-freeze through once with the thermostat in and then once without, if I have an older model. Do I need to run it through twice like that, or is this engine a new enough model (it's in a 1975 Sabre 28) so that I just remove the thermostat and pinch the line before running the anti-freeze through?

Two final things I'm curious about. I read that once I take out the thermostat, I need to replace the gasket before putting it back in. Is this correct? Also, the repair manual says to leave one of the drain plugs open. Am I supposed to do that? I was thinking the antifreeze would leak out if I did.

I will follow the step-by-step procedures from Mr. Moyer in the main winterizing section, which are very clear, I just want to be sure that I'm seeing things the right way with the engine.

Cheers and thanks so much,
Matt

[Mo]

To answer a few of your questions.

1. The pic of the 3 way valve is in the pic.
2. It looks to me that the intake thruway valve, the one where it goes through the boat, has a handle missing. That needs to be working and fixed if necessary. You need that intake valve closed and the 3-way valve open to draw water into the engine.
3. Yes, you should remove the T-stat to winterize. Replace the housing with the old gasket or some silicone.
4. With the T-stat out I have a small valve there on that line coming off the T-stat housing. I close that half and it allows antifreeze into the head passages as well as the engine and exhaust manifold.
5. No need to remove a plug if there is antifreeze in the engine. I have never done it.

[Mattlurzo]

Dilute the Anti-freeze?

One big winterizing thread warns that you have to dilute the anti-freeze. (but it says auto anti-freeze). All the marine anti-freeze I see says "Ready to use -- do not dilute". Should I dilute it anyway?

(another question, ugh)
Thank you for helping me out!
Matt

(I had an error above and corrected it -- the thread I read said you HAD to dilute the anti-freeze)

[Mo]

Do not dilute any antifreeze that says not to. I use auto antifreeze and here in Nova Scotia I wouldn't dare use anything but.

So what I do is buy a gallon of auto antifreeze, not the premix. I then mix it 50/50...I use an empty windshield washer jug to put half in, then fill both with water.

1 Remove the housing, remove T-stat if there is one there, replace T-stat housing.
2 Close the intake thru hull.
3 Put a 3 foot section of garden hose on the 3 way valve
4 Open the 3 way valve
5 Put hose into the 1 gallon jug...keep jug as low to the engine as you can, like in a lazarette.
6 Start engine and rev it up a bit to allow the pump to draw the fluid.
7 When it splashes green out the stern exhaust discharge shut engine down.
8 At this point your engine, manifold, exhaust and muffler are winterized.
9 Note: the time interval from starting the engine until you see green should be 20 - 40 seconds. I generally use about 3/4 of a jug to winterize, the rest I pour into the toilet and pump it dry....good to go.

If you'd like to give me a shout I'm home tonight (Nine 0 two) 461- one two two eight...I'd be happy to help you out and discuss that intake thru hull with you.

[Mattlurzo]

I'd be happy to help you out and discuss that intake thru hull with you.

Thank you so much! That's beyond generous to offer your help. The photo doesn't show it, but the intake can be shut off. It's right at the base of the pipe that leads to the thru hull. If that's what you mean, I'm all set. I always have to open it when running the engine.

Thanks again for your insight and your offer to help. That was above and beyond!

Have an awesome night!

[edwardc]

Auto antifreeze will handle a lower temperature, but it's toxic to fish and wildlife, and should be captured when dewinterizing in the spring.

The pink RV/Marine antifreeze (don't dilute) won't protect as low, but it's non-toxic and can be discharged overboard in the spring.

Given that you're in Chantilly VA, the winters are mild enough to use the pink stuff. I use it regularly in the Upper Chesapeake without problems.

[joe_db]

Auto antifreeze will handle a lower temperature, but it's toxic to fish and wildlife, and should be captured when dewinterizing in the spring.

The pink RV/Marine antifreeze (don't dilute) won't protect as low, but it's non-toxic and can be discharged overboard in the spring.

Given that you're in Chantilly VA, the winters are mild enough to use the pink stuff. I use it regularly in the Upper Chesapeake without problems.

Actually marine life does not care about pink vs. green. Unless you plan to dump it some place where dogs, cats, or humans might drink it, don't worry about it. Fish don't care. It's a mammal thing

[Peter]

Also, the repair manual says to leave one of the drain plugs open. Am I supposed to do that? I was thinking the antifreeze would leak out if I did.

I too was stumped by the manual as it does not explicitly say to put the drain plug back in. I asked on another thread and was told, as you suspected, that the anti-freeze would leak out if I did not.

Hope that helps,

Peter

[edwardc]

Actually marine life does not care about pink vs. green. Unless you plan to dump it some place where dogs, cats, or humans might drink it, don't worry about it. Fish don't care. It's a mammal thing

While that's true, it still causes oxygen depletion, and the anaerobic breakdown products are toxic to aquatic life.

From Wikipedia:

Ethylene glycol involved in aircraft de-icing and anti-icing operations is released onto land and eventually to waterways.[12] A report prepared for the World Health Organization in 2000 stated that laboratory tests exposing aquatic organisms to stream water receiving runoff from airports have shown toxic effects and death (p. 12).[73] Field studies in the vicinity of an airport have reported toxic signs consistent with ethylene glycol poisoning, fish kills, and reduced biodiversity, although those effects could not definitively be ascribed to ethylene glycol (p. 12).[73] The process of biodegrading of glycols also increases the risk to organisms, as oxygen levels become depleted in surface waters (p. 13).[73] Another study found the toxicity to aquatic and other organisms was relatively low, but the oxygen-depletion effect of biodegradation was more serious (p. 245).[74] Further, "Anaerobic biodegradation may also release relatively toxic byproducts such as acetaldehyde, ethanol, acetate, and methane (p. 245)."[74]

[Mo]

cold start was OK

Mine is on the hard. It was -5C (23F) the other day and I put the carb on, fired it up and ran it for about 15 seconds. I turn the engine over every month or so to ensure no sticking valves etc. It did turn over allot this time prior to starting but the fuel pump had to deliver fuel to an empty carb, so not a major.

For guys in the water you can just turn it over with the coil wire off just to keep things moving. Leave the sea cock water intake closed. Hopefully no surprises like stuck valves in the spring.

[edwardc]

Our winterizing this year consists of taking the boat the the Florida Keys and the Bahamas. Very effective at avoiding freeze damage and stuck valves!

[Mo]

Yeah, I wish I was down there as well Edward. We have about 4 club members in the Caribbean this winter. Most leave the boat there, have it hauled out in summer and fly back to Canada. A couple of them have Motor homes and live much the same way in summer up here...just visiting places, truly retired and a few bucks to do what they want.

[sastanley]

Our winterizing this year consists of taking the boat the the Florida Keys and the Bahamas. Very effective at avoiding freeze damage and stuck valves!

Ed, when are you heading back down...I need more adventures on your blog!!!

[edwardc]

We're already back at the boat in Ft. Pierce, FL. Just waiting for some parts and tools we shipped from home to arrive. Hope to be on our way soon.