Water in the oil

[Jesse Delanoy]

rickrose,

to get the most oil out of the engine during an oil change, I recommend Don's oil change kit, which has a permanent brass tube that installs in the oil drain plug port, and goes nearly to the lowest point in the crankcase. Before I installed the kit, I had success with taping a six inch brass tube around the outside of my flexible pump hose, and lowering that in the drain plug port. The brass tube acted as both a splint, keeping the hose straight, and a weight, keeping it at the bottom of the crankcase.

Jesse

[Bill McNamara]

Water in oil....hindsight

My water in oil problem, of a couple of years ago, turned out to be one of those failed rotten little 1/4" pipe plugs behind the valves!
Trouble was , I didn't find it until the engine was pulled, and totally disassembled......I didn't know of this excellent site back then.
Bill McNamara

[Tom.Watson]

Can no sputter engine failure still be fuel side problem?

I bought a 77 Catalina with . Previous owner says he only had one engine failure since A4 was rebuilt 4 years ago. The ran fine for sea trial. And I crossed Lake Ontario with it in June when we motored for at least four hours. Since then, I have used it problem free for at least two periods longer than two hours. Two weeks ago, after start fine and running fine at about 10,000 rpm, the engine failed (like I shut it down) after I throttled up to 20,000 rpm. It would then start and shutdown almost right away with no sputter. Then it would not start. Sounded like an electrical issue but engine started and ran great after I changed plugs, inline filter and emptied bowl of my manual fuel pump. It started and ran great in my slip. I ran it in and out of gear for 30 minutes at least three time. Then I went out and all was well until I throttled up to 20,000 rpm. Some dockmates tell me it is probably the coil. But why would problem go away for a short period after fuel side adjustments? Others tell me it is water in the tank. But why no sputter? Suggestions?

[HarryB]

More Water in Oil Questions

Please forgive if this is a duplicate but I tried to post a response earlier and I apparently did something wrong and it didn't happen.

I found water in the oil of my late model A4 for the first time this weekend. I tried changing the oil and after three changes it was running clear but at the fourth change water showed up again in the oil. The boat is on land and I am using a garden hose connected to the raw water intake side of the of the water pump to cool the engine. I left the water running while the engine was both running and off during the oil change exercise. What kind of seals are on the waterpump and what is the liklihood that the pressureized water is leaking through the water pump into the oil? (There is nothing in your manual about how the waterpump is sealed.) If this is a possibility would it make a difference if I shut the water off when the engine is off or do I need to bypass the pump completely?

[Don Moyer]

You should never pressurize water through the water pump when running an
engine on land or you will almost surely overpower the exhaust system and
get water back into the engine. It is better to allow the pump to draw
water out of a five-gallon bucket and use the hose to replenish the bucket.

Don

[Don Moyer]

If your boat is a Catalina 30, I recommend checking the attachments.

Don

[mac666]

Water in oil A4 on Ericson27

Hello, peoples.
My father's boat has A4 in it (later model ..forgot to look up a serial #)
It has some water in oil...not much, but enough to get it milky.
As advised, we have changed oil 3 times and still see oil get milky.
The engine runs just fine, though...temp holding 140F and stable.
We have not run a compression test yet, but the smooth operation of the engine pretty much rules out a blown head gasket. Water pushed out of the exhaust just fine, no steam...A local mechanic tends to think it's a water pump - he says, if the bearings go bad, a shaft shifts from the excentricity in worn out bearings and opens up a water seal...he recommends to change a pump (or rebuild an existing one with new bearings)...
*WOULD YOU AGREE???
*Should we still do a compression test???
*if I am to get a replacement for a pump, How do I identify which one I have??? I'm attaching 2 pix the best I could take...sorry
*which is a BETTER pump to get?
Thanks to all - I love this forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mac

[roadnsky]

Mac-
From what I can see in your pics it appears you have a late model A4 with an Oberdorfer pump.
You can either get the kit and rebuild it or get the nice MMI 502 that Don sells on this site (Product No. - CSOB_00_365)
I have one and it works great.
Also get the EXTENDED LOWER BOLT!

Either way you go I'd suggest calling Ken in parts and he'll set you up...

[Whippet]

Water in Oil

Last (and only) oil change of the year, made while winterizing, oil was milkshake colored. Was puzzled, but thought it might be what MMO does to oil. Wrong!! I just read in A4 manual that i had water in oil.

I am away from boat for a few weeks (that is on the hard in Toronto) so trying to get my imagination settled down before i return for various tests.

A bit of background:

1) A4 ran just fine all season at idle and higher RPMs. Low engine time. Mainly just used to get out of mooring a few hundred yards before open water in Lake Ontario.
2) Oil pressure was never great -- usually around 25 at low cruise according to cockpit gauge. Had planned to adjust in spring.
3) I went brain dead early in season and tried to start engine with fuel shut-off shut to off (geez)-- and starter was engaged on and off for maybe a minute before i engaged brain, and then engine started right up. Could that be how water got in?
4) Otherwise, did a rebuilt exhaust prior winter with help of PO -- and maybe didn't have sufficient upward lift in exhaust after manifold? or hand-made piece where cooling water output enters exhaust is too restricted or not low enough relative to manifold?
5) Prior oil change during prior winterizing showed proper "black" oil color.

When i return to boat, i plan to change oil 3 times as Don suggests earlier in this thread, and see what i see. I just dread the bad stuff like cracked block, failed head gasket, etc. A4 is in C&C27 and it's way tight down there.

Any advice on tests to perform or possible causes? Feeling ill that there could be a time consuming and expensive road ahead.

thanks

[smosher]

HI, See my responses inline

Last (and only) oil change of the year, made while winterizing, oil was milkshake colored. Was puzzled, but thought it might be what MMO does to oil. Wrong!! I just read in A4 manual that i had water in oil.

I am away from boat for a few weeks (that is on the hard in Toronto) so trying to get my imagination settled down before i return for various tests.

A bit of background:

1) A4 ran just fine all season at idle and higher RPMs. Low engine time. Mainly just used to get out of mooring a few hundred yards before open water in Lake Ontario.
2) Oil pressure was never great -- usually around 25 at low cruise according to cockpit gauge. Had planned to adjust in spring.

I would check the op with a mechanical gauge to confirm the reading as either the gauge sender or wiring could be the cause. In my case it was the engine ground

3) I went brain dead early in season and tried to start engine with fuel shut-off shut to off (geez)-- and starter was engaged on and off for maybe a minute before i engaged brain, and then engine started right up. Could that be how water got in?

If the water intake was open yes this is the usual cause of water in the oil

4) Otherwise, did a rebuilt exhaust prior winter with help of PO -- and maybe didn't have sufficient upward lift in exhaust after manifold? or hand-made piece where cooling water output enters exhaust is too restricted or not low enough relative to manifold?

If you have a pic of the exhaust I'm sure someone will comment. Generally though the water injection is after the rise and as low as possible

5) Prior oil change during prior winterizing showed proper "black" oil color.

When i return to boat, i plan to change oil 3 times as Don suggests earlier in this thread, and see what i see. I just dread the bad stuff like cracked block, failed head gasket, etc. A4 is in C&C27 and it's way tight down there.

Any advice on tests to perform or possible causes? Feeling ill that there could be a time consuming and expensive road ahead.


Don't let the water sit in the crankcase, as it will cause you more issues in the spring with valves.

thanks

[Whippet]

exhaust design responsible for water in oil?

Further to last post, here is photo of exhaust. It was rebuilt last spring when prior version leaked at spring launch. Tried to replicate prior design.

Could this be responsible for water in oil? According to Moyer manual (chapter 7), design misses by a few points:
1) Water discharge fitting in hot section is not 4 inches below highest point of hot section
2) No anti-siphon valve installed at top of water output hose

Water could have been in oil by a slow start in spring with raw water thru-hull open. But want to also makes sure exhaust design passes muster if that could be culprit.

BTW, I did "thumb" compression check last week and all cylinders passed. A4 ran fine at haul-out and winterizing.

thanks as usual for all wisdom

[Dave Neptune]

Info

Whippet, does your engine's manifold sit above or below the waterline?

Dave Neptune

[Whippet]

answer uncertain

Hi Dave

Thinking manifold is likely above waterline but perhaps not much.
I need a boat visit to confirm. Manifold close to bottom of cockpit floor (why i cant get a lot of rise out of hot section), and cockpit floor above waterline. i can inquire at C&C27 forum since away from boat for some weeks.

What is difference in your answer if manifold is or isnt above waterline?

Thanks for quick response.

[Dave Neptune]

There's more too

If it's above the water line no BIG worries. If it is below you will need to run the water injection hose well above the water line and install a syphon break as water will be sucked past the water pump to fill the exhaust then when the exhaust fills to the level of an open exhaust valve the dribblibng in via the syphon will reak havoc.

Dave Neptune

[Sony2000]

So as not to redo the water discharge section again, if you add in a union above it, that should give you 2'' more of piping above the hot water pipe. Unions come with female/male threaded ends.