1972 E27-Fixing Everything

[CajunSpike]

My biggest issue is the actual physical access to the location. Its at the rearmost and lowest point in the engine box.

Vertical clearance is limited due to the cockpit floor.
Working space is limited to clearance between the engine and the rear of the engine box.

Even considering removing the fuel tank I just installed for more working space and getting to the coupling by cutting a hole in the rear of the engine box wall.

[tenders]

There has got to be some Ericson expertise on the ericsonyachts.com forum to help with this situation. My 32 has had its challenges in getting to that coupling but is completely different from this, I’m sorry I don’t have any suggestions.

[CajunSpike]

Read if you care to.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?15782-Prop-shaft-coupling-spins-but-prop-shaft-does-not-72-E27&p=114760#post114760

Also the coil from MMI came in today.
Was $50 +16 shipping.

Found the same upc part number online for $11.

With that and the pertronix 1146a kit, have what I need to go electronic ignition.

[Peter]

Bill,

I recently had to replace the oil seal and thrust bearing on my E29 and consequently spent quite bit of time fiddling with the shaft coupling. I believe that access to the propeller shaft on the E29 is similar to that on the E27 - but probably not quite as bad as the E27!

To allow me to replace the seal and bearing I lifted the engine into the cabin. Accomplished this by placing a 2x8 across the companionway hatch slides and attached a pulley system to that. We were easily able to hoist the engine and slide the 2x8 along to help us move the engine fore and aft. We lined the sole of the cabin with a good tarp and placed some sturdy boards on top of that to take the weight. I did this work with my 23 year old daughter helping me. Neither of us fall into the "strong like bull" category.

If I had to replace the propeller shaft coupling on my boat I would pop the engine into the cabin. You do have to disconnect a few things - including the exhaust - to do this but once you get it out you will have excellent access to that coupling.

Peter

[CajunSpike]

Did you have any issues removing the exhaust pipe to exhaust manifold bolts? I have visions of broken bolts in my head....

Have considered removing the engine..........trying not to go there but it may come to it.

Info MUCH appreciated.

[Peter]

Bill,

I did not but I had that apart about two years ago to redo the exhaust.

At that time I did have a broken bolt. Because I was swapping engines, the engine was in the trunk of my car so i took it to my local garage where they used a lot of heat (cutting torch) and vice grips to get the stub out.

The key to doing that was to try to turn it back and forth very small amounts - not just one way.

I have also been told that applying your favourite rust remover and then tapping the heads with a hammer over a few days is also a good technique for getting difficult bolts out.

I believe there are others on the forum with significant expertise in this area.

Hope that helps,

Peter

[JOHN COOKSON]

Did you have any issues removing the exhaust pipe to exhaust manifold bolts? I have visions of broken bolts in my head....

Start the engine and get it up to operating temperature then try to loosen the bolts. The heat + vibration will help the bolts to loosen. For jobs like this I prefer a flat hand wrench. I have a better feel for loosening or twisting off the bolt head. If you can find a 6 point wrench al the better.
Don't burn yourself and be mindful of carbon monoxide.

TRUE GRIT

[sastanley]

Cajun, I had to press my couplers apart using Ed's procedure about 5 posts up. I had to have 3 sets of bolts, each 1/2" or so longer than the last, but it did eventually come off. The details in my epic Indigo thread. I'll find a link if you need it.

[CajunSpike]

The entire problem I'm facing is there is very very little access to the coupling from above it. I'm lucky to get a hand down there to feel where the coupling bolts are. Haven't actually seen one of them yet. Removed an engine bolt in error...and replaced it.

There is no left/right access due to the engine box walls.

From the rear, the fuel tank is right where you would have to be if you tried to get to the coupling bolts from that direction. Even if there was space, I'd have to cut a bigger hole in the engine box just to be able to see the area of work.

Contemplating pulling the engine but the manifold bolts could be rusted.
Wondering if cutting the exhaust pipe neatly to remove the engine, in a way it could be patched up after, is a possibility instead of maybe breaking the manifold bolts.

I'm pretty sure the shaft will slip out the coupling, if the motor is pulled, since it spins freely. Again everybody, every idea is valuable.. Thank you.

[edwardc]

I don't know if you have a quarterberth or sail lockers, but what about cutting an access panel from the side? With a little wood trim, hinges, and the cutout piece, this could be turned into an access hatch.

[CajunSpike]

The batteries are in the front of the right side(facing fwd) quarterberth. The middle of the qb has an access hatch that lets me see the prop shaft stuffing box and fuel tank. The stuffing box is just within arm reach from that hatch. Used that opening to screw down the fuel tank support bracket I built. Also used it to change the trans cable. Due to the angle of the hull, you can put arms in it and peek in with your head, but not enough space to do more than that.

The left side of the engine box is hidden behind cabinetry with only a tiny openable door. Scratch that.

The coupling bolts are inside the walls of the engine box. You can barely see the end of the coupling from the qb access holes, but not the coupling bolts. MAYBE a long ratchet extension could unscrew the coupling bolts from the qb access hole if somebody guides the socket onto the bolt in the engine box.

Options as I see it are:

1)Pull the motor to have access to the parts.
2)Lay on top the engine and by feel try to remove the coupling bolts.
3)Remove the fuel tank. Remove the tank support. Cut the rear wall of the engine box enough to see what you're doing. Requires small person in confined space entering thru port locker.

Do this while the outside temp is 90 to 95 degrees. I've done a lot to this boat so far, but while this isn't very technical, its a major p-i-t-a.

[alcodiesel]

Geeze, Bill, I know exactly what you're talking about. I concur: its a major p-i-t-a.
And I'm thinking changing the exhaust pipe is gonna be hard.

I vote option 1. That or like I'm semi jokingly thinking- cut a hole in the hull, like the big guys do.

Best wishes on the project- and I know you just want to go sailing.

[ndutton]

As you plan on how to get the engine out (shaft coupling, exhaust) include a strategy to get it back in - and aligned. Alignment is all about the shaft coupler.

If it were me I'd be thinking about removing structure around the engine and replacing with removable panels.

[Peter]

Plenty of good thoughts on this thread.

Regardless of whether you try to do this with the engine in situ or pulled, you are going to have to loosen the shaft coupling bolts with the engine in place.

And, as Neil wisely noted, you are going to have to align the engine (probably a good idea to do this whether you all the engine or not) and tighten the shaft coupling bolts with the engine in place.

All of which suggests you need better access to that coupling area than you have now.

On my E29, the coupling resides just ahead of the aft bulkhead of the engine compartment. There is an access panel - factory installed I believe - just aft of that to allow access to battery box, stuffing box, thru hulls and the shaft coupling. Without that access panel, it would be impossible to work on these items.

Suggestion - since you are going to need access to this area whichever route you choose, start by making an access panel and see what you can accomplish with the engine in place.

Hope that helps,

Peter

[CajunSpike]

Went down to the boat about 10pm. If working during the daytime was too hot, then lets try the night.

Setup small a/c in the door frame, sealed it off.
Put drop light around back side of motor. This left me see the coupling and bolts.
Put cushion over top of engine. All access was over the top of the engine.
Used oscillating tool to remove parts of the back wall. Was just thin fiberglass. This gave me enough room to put tools in that area.
Removed 1st coupling bolt by pushing fwd on one bolt and bwd on another bolt so shaft would not spin. Bolt had oil on it, not rusty. Was very tight but came loose.
Put the trans in gear to assist keeping coupling still.
Cut a bit more of the back wall as the edges were hurting my hands.
Removed 2nd coupling bolt by pushing fwd on one bolt and bwd on another bolt so shaft would not spin. Bolt had oil on it, not rusty. Was very tight but came loose.
On the last bolt, had to figure how to keep the motor from spinning. Even in gear it would still turn. Found the manual engine crank handle. Inserted it and used that
to stop the crank from turning. With that holding things still, was able to break free the 3rd coupling bolt.

To separate the coupling halves, I took a hammer and tapped gently. Rotate the engine. Repeat. Rotate. Tap. At some point the coupling halves popped free.

The last problem was not enough room to pull the rear coupling off the shaft.
Stewed on that for a while but went with the only option.
Removed all 8 engine mount to floor bolts. Not rusty.
Removed the water outlet hose. Just a clamp.
Removed the muffler bolts. Not frozen and not rusty. I was amazed about this but the bolts looked 'newish' instead of ancient.
Pulled fwd on the engine enough to move it about an inch.
That was just enough clearance to pull the coupling off the shaft, and it came free.
Looked back into the work space and found the shaft pinch bolt. Also found the shaft key.

With all the parts in my hand, it became apparent what had happened.

1)The shaft pinch bolt backed out the hole. The hole in the shaft pinch bolt where you wire it up was clogged and dirty. There had been no wire to keep the pinch bolt in place.
2)The brass shaft key was only about 3/4 of an inch long and intact. The keyway on the coupling is about 1.5" long. That key was way too short.
3)The prop shaft keyway was all the way back against the water seal. This means the shaft itself had move rearward at some point. When it did move backwards(not having a pinch bolt), since the shaft key was so short, it disengaged from the coupling.

This is why the coupling would spin but the shaft didn't. The shaft had backed out the coupling due to a missing pinch bolt and with the short key, was no longer engaged in the coupling.

All parts are undamaged.

So now:
Have to find a longer brass key. I figure 1.5" should work. Material is square brass rod 1/4"(3/16"?) wide on a steel 3/4" prop shaft. Know where to find some?
Have to install and wire the shaft pinch bolt OR replace the coupling with the moyer coupling.
Put it all back together.

Went to bed about 2am.
When I got up, I installed the pertronix kit and the moyer coil.
Obviously did not start the engine with it disconnected like it was.