Catalina 30 Muffler

[Merino]

Ok... so I have a 1979 Catalina 30 with our beloved atomic 4... Unfortunately a leak developed in the exhaust manifold (confirmed during rebuild) which started the dreaded stuck valve syndrome which lead to one of the cylinders becoming frozen... So my atomic 4 is currently being rebuilt... Since the engine is out and I'm trying to optimize things while engine is out (lots of room to work). My original Catalina 30 muffler intake is damaged (crushed) and I intend to replace it... Started to look around and realized that most of the waterlift mufflers I've seen seem to be much smaller volume than my original (except the one offered by CatalinaDirect which is larger). So given that this is a Catalina 30 with the known exhaust issues (limited space, possible backflow when heeling), should I be concerned about the volume of the muffler?

Thanks,

Dan

[ndutton]

Welcome Merino

Your question is a good one, waterlift volume is one of three important factors regarding Catalina 30 exhaust systems, the other two being the hot section design and the check valve at the highest point in the downstream exhaust hose found in the port sail bin in the cockpit. Since your question pertained to the waterlift we'll stay on topic.

The Catalina fiberglass waterlift is the highest volume, lowest profile model available. It has a liability though. Unless the construction has changed over the years the big flat sides tend to flex in use due to the rhythmic pressure developed when pushing out water batches. This flexing leads to cracks and leaks sooner or later, likely the reason they offer a replacement.

There are other waterlifts available in stock sizes that have been used successfully by Catalina 30 owners on this forum. In order of their quality starting with the lowest they are:

• Vetus LP40 http://www.vetus.com/exhaust-systems...let-40-mm.html
  The Vetus LP40 will get the job done but it's blow molded construction is very light, its material extremely intolerant of elevated temperatures. Splitting at the center seam is the usual failure. It won't last 60 seconds without cooling water as in forgetting to open the raw water valve, blocked raw water intake or impeller failure.
• Centek Vernalift 1500270 https://www.centekindustries.com/pro...-top-in-6-x-9/
  This is the waterlift I have. It is of filament wound fiberglass construction, very robust and corrosion free. In my sailing area burying the rail is a normal occurrence because of our excellent afternoon sailing conditions and I have had zero issues for the 12 years I've owned my Catalina 30.
• Moyer Marine Stainless Waterlift http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...=EXHT_01.0_377
  You will not find a higher quality waterlift but of course quality comes at a price. It's dimensions are very close to the Centek I have and I cannot recall a single post on this forum describing any problems with it.

[Merino]

Neil,
Thanks for the reply... I've been looking at the Centeks as well... However I was looking at this one in particular since it's about the same volume but lower profile...

http://www.centekindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/15R1163%20Data%20Sheet.pdf?x62515

Cheers,

Dan

[ndutton]

I had not seen that model before, perhaps a new product within the past 12 years? It certainly meets the necessary parameters and has a slightly greater volume, like 9 fluid ounces. With it, a heat shielded hot section as high as cabinetry will allow and a functioning check valve you should be good.

Please keep in mind no prolonged no-start cranking with the raw water valve open. That will overwhelm any waterlift eventually.

[thatch]

Hi Merino, and welcome to the forum. Just recently I replaced both my hot section and the entire hose run in my C-30. Like Neil I have the Centek 1500270 water-lift which is a "top in/top-out" unit. I have a feeling that trying to bend the hose onto the "side-out" fitting on the model (15R1163) might present a challenge since the natural run of the hose goes from the W/L up and behind the galley stove. The picture of the 15R does not seem to match the dimension drawing to the right.
Tom

[Merino]

Tom,
The drawing is a bit deceiving... part number 15R1163 is top in/out... Part number 15R2163 is side in top out...

Cheers,

Dan

[thatch]

Dan, Thank's for clearing that up.
Tom

[rkohl44]

Hi All,

Resurrecting this thread rather than starting a new one.

My '82 Catalina 30's stock, fiberglass water lift muffler (wlm) has sprung a leak (which will lead to a much longer, exhausting--pun-tended--thread later).

The question at the moment is suitability of the Moyer Stainless wlm versus either the Catalinadirect replacement or the Centek mentioned in ndutton's post above.

The stainless cannot have more volume than 198 cu inches and the Catalina is more than 4x that volume.

If I'm the only one starting the engine and I ALWAYS start it with the raw water intake closed, the volume shouldn't make a difference. BUT, if I FORGET or someone else starts the engine with it open, doesn't the lower volume of the stainless give me a much smaller margin of error for starting up?

Second question: Is there an appreciable volume (noise, this time) difference in the stainless versus the others?

Third and final question: Because the footprint is different, how many new holes will I need for the stainless? Part II: How appreciably different would the plumbing IN and OUT be versus the stock model?

[sastanley]

rkohl, I can answer a couple of those questions.
#1- If your choke works reliably and closes all the way, the engine should start almost instantly, unless she's had a long lay up, in which case I would not trust anyone other than myself on that start up either, unless fully trained/qualified ahead of time. If I am out cruising and the engine has already been running, it almost always starts up right away anyway, unless it is dead cold and needs choke.

#2 - I have the Vetus, and even though it is lowest on Neil's quality gauge (I agree 100%, but it came with the boat and has not failed yet), I don't even have it screwed to the boat, because the exhaust hose is so damn stiff it holds everything in place.

[ndutton]

#2 - I have the Vetus, and even though it is lowest on Neil's quality gauge (I agree 100%, but it came with the boat and has not failed yet)

Sorry Shawn. I agree the Vetus waterlift functions as intended as long as the cooling system is functioning properly but on the other hand it quickly turns into a melted POS when things go wrong. That yours has served you well is a testament to the quality of your engine maintenance.

rkohl, by any chance is your leaky Catalina waterlift the large square version? Does it leak around the base seam (that's where they usually fail)? Consider that your Catalina waterlift has already failed once, do you really want to put another one in? Good to see you're thinking of other options.

[rkohl44]

Neil: yes to both: large square version, leaking at the base seams.

I'm inclined to go either with the Centek you have or the MM stainless. Do you have any input on the volume questions I posed above? The MM one appears to be about 1/4 the volume as the Centek and I'm guessing would be even less forgiving if the raw water seacock were inadvertently left open.

[ndutton]

I have no direct experience with the MMI stainless version but based on their business model I have no doubt as to it's quality. That said, stainless waterlifts in general tend to develop pinhole leaks at the base seam weld because of metallurgical changes with the welding process coupled with long term internal salt water exposure. I have never heard of such leaks on an MMI product however.

With the Catalina 30 specifically, waterlift volume is a significant factor due to limitations of engine placement and exhaust design. Bigger is better in our case.

Does your exhaust hose have a swing check valve at the high point inside the port cockpit sail locker? Is it functioning? Can you hear it clacking when the engine is running? The valve is usually a bronze check valve with a steel pivot pin . Some time ago I noticed the clacking noise on mine abated indicating no-function so I replaced the valve with an all stainless one. Again specific to the Catalina 30, it's an important component.

Autopsy of the old valve showed the gate was stuck open.

The MM [waterlift] appears to be about 1/4 the volume as the Centek

You might want to check your math. Using the Centek model I have recommended before (1500270), it's volume is 28% greater than MMI's stainless waterlift according to published dimensions.

[rkohl44]

oops...I meant the Catalina one (https://www.catalinadirect.com/image...5_S07_1178.jpg).

Hmm...will have to check on the valve you're talking about...I've never noticed it making noise before. This is looking to be a complete exhaust rebuild.

[sastanley]

+1 what Neil said about the flapper. It is up under the winch. When the pin fails the bronze flapper gets lodged into the fitting so it doesn't clog farther down the line..but it is a NOTICEABLE clacker sound every few seconds if working correctly. I personally ripped mine out and replaced it with a Centek elbow. They seem to make quality parts, and I decided that if I was worried about backfilling the engine from the exhaust on stbd tack, I'll just stay at the dock that day, so YMMV.

Do a quick google search on "bronze swing check valve"...mine was 1 1/4" inch with male nipples on each end with the exhaust hose clamped on either side. I also suspect that you will find the exhaust hose failing at the muffler exit, and possibly at the transom thru-hull. Conveniently, two 10' lengths from WM with the flapper in the middle were adequate replacements..the hardest part was getting it around the ice box...I cut a screw in access plate behind the stove.

[rkohl44]

Neil, Shawn:

I assume that the pictures show where the non-mystical bronze swing check valve is located. As you can see, I have the mystical version installed.

Two questions:
1. What does the non-mystical version do?
2. How on earth am I supposed to cut that hose and put one in?

The hose is in decent condition, a little chewed up at the muffler end, but usable. I tested it for blockage, and it is clear all the way through.