Standpipe Construction

[Mo]

Finally someone with a T 34 that says the exhaust gets hot. I dont know why no one talks about it. It has made me crazy.

I have insulated that pipe with tons of fiberglass insulation. It still gets too hot. I have run with the engine box open and 3 fans blowing on it, when motoring long distance, like the ICW.

I have thought about making a jacketed exhaust, but have not done it yet. At one point, I was going to wrap 1/2 " copper tubing around the insulation, and run the cooling water thru it. I still might.

I cant imagine that the single wrapped exhaust pipe is much cooler then not wrapped.

I am surprised that no boats have caught fire.

Would a double exhaust wrap and a thin metal heat shield help. I haven't had to use a heat sheild on mine because I have ample clearance. The idea of a heat shield would be a piece of sheet metal (pref stainless or something non corrosive for the marine application) mounted so that it has about a 1 inch space between it and the wooden area. The heat sheild is usually attached by four or six points. metal absorbs and deflects heat away from the wood and the 1 inch gap is for air behind the shield so that it is not in direct contact with the wood....availability of room to install it would be the major consideration. Although not a fancy fix I think a heat shield could add some peace of mind. There should not be anything between the sheet metal and the wood ie) insulation because the sheet metal has to be able to dissipate heat as well. Might be worth looking into. Simple yet effective.

[romantic comedy]

Yes Maurice! That is exactly what I am working on. I dont have much room, but I am going to try to put that heat shield in there somehow. Even a very little space can work well. The air flows up behind it and keeps things cooler. I was looking into some board, but again, no room. I think I will just use some sheet stainless.

I also need to improve the fan situation. There is actually a baffle that gets made around the pipe. The fan sucks on the low side, then blows back onto the pipe, and the air goes up and out on the cabin top. If that makes sense?

You might be able to see the 2 holes behind the pipe. The stand pipe gets enclosed in a cabinet, with a straight up blower vent, thru the cabin top.

Today I have been insulating the pipe at home in the garage. There will be a lot of 2 inch by 1/8 fiberglass wrap on it.

Anyone ever use flexible silica?

[Mo]

Have never used it (flexible silica) but just checked it out on-line. Must be good material because it's used in allot of industrial applications.

[ArtJ]

Finally someone with a T 34 that says the exhaust gets hot. I dont know why no one talks about it. It has made me crazy.

I used 45 elbows instead of 90 to make less restriction. I have thought that the weight and rigid mounting needs improvement. I wonder if anyone has used a flexible connection in the pipe. I also wonder about bending the 1 1/4 pipe, or standard automotive exhaust pipe, or flexible exhaust pipe.

Then there is the question of what material pipe. Stainless sounds no good. Iron pipe works but rusts out. Mine lasted 10 years. Maybe brass or bronze?

I have insulated that pipe with tons of fiberglass insulation. It still gets too hot. I have run with the engine box open and 3 fans blowing on it, when motoring long distance, like the ICW.

I have thought about making a jacketed exhaust, but have not done it yet. At one point, I was going to wrap 1/2 " copper tubing around the insulation, and run the cooling water thru it. I still might.

I cant imagine that the single wrapped exhaust pipe is much cooler then not wrapped.

I am surprised that no boats have caught fire.

The three turns of wrap help and long along with the piece of stove pipe.
I have replaced with, as with original black iron pipe ten years ago. Still
nice and solid. The original pipe was in there 30 years and while rusting
had not failed.

[HOTFLASH]

I changed to a MM Standpipe

About 18 months ago, on my Tartan 27 I installed the MM standpipe---and wrapped it with fiberglass insulation tape, though I think theoretically I did not have to insulate it. I did so because of the proximity to the battery cables and the icebox. It rises in the 9" space between the forward cockpit bulkhead and the after cabin bulkhead, attaching to the forward side of the forward cockpit bulkhead.

New insulated SS 1.25" Schedule 40 pipe from McMaster leads from the exhaust manifold to the bottom of the standpipe, with cooling water entering the top. I do not think the boat originally had a standpipe, but it fits and operates beautifully.

Mary

[sastanley]

romantic comedy..have you thought about trying some insulating/self sticking padded foil? I used some on the bottom of the wood cabinet that is 1" from my hot section.

A buddy restoring a Corvette recommended it, & he was cutting weird shapes and sizes and sticking it all over his firewall. It is about 1/4" thick and has metal on one side and insulating foam on the other..the padded side sticks to stuff and you can cut it with tin snips (or ruin a good pair of scissors..)

It is available at Amazon (and I am sure lots of other places) and comes in rolled up sheets about 2 or 3 square feet. Search for "adhesive backed heat barrier".

Prices vary wildly so do a little digging to find yourself a good deal if you think it might help.

[TomG]

I have a Tartan 30 with the MMI SS Standpipe and I too have concerns about the heat generated by the hot section. I used black iron for the hot section and wrapped it twice with high-temp fiberglass wrap (sold here). Using my nifty digital thermometer, I get temps of 250-260 degrees routinely where the hot section turns to go up into the standpipe. I'm toying with the idea of using some sort of galvanized metal sheeting to shield the bulkhead. The standpipe never gets hot, but the hot section really gets hot. I'm ventilated by the engine blower (I run it continuously while the engine is running) and I have a Nicro solar/battery powered ventilator in the chase where the standpipe lives.

This is an interesting thread for us Tartan owners and very timely for me. I'm interested to see what you all come up with!

[romantic comedy]

If I did it right, there will be a picture of the exhaust or my carrot cake, or nothing. Let's see.

The pipe is in position. I only put it there quick, it was 94 today, and 110 in the cabin. I will try to put a heat shield, made of sheet ss on the bulkhead, on the two sides of the pipe. I am thinking about what to use for a stand off. I guess I will go with 1/2 to 3/4 in thick spacer, and 3/32 SS sheet.

I need to work on airflow, that is the key for all the T 34s. There are two holes thru the bulkhead. The lower hole has a hose that goes to the blower, then the air comes right back in, and flows up past the copper standpipe, and up thru the cabin top. Some type of air flow block-separater has to be made between the two holes, around the pipe. (here again, this seperator has to be made of non flammable material, and conform to the exhaust insulation) So the air comes past the pipe, out the hole, thru the blower, in the upper hole, past the pipe, up and out the cabin. I hope you get that.

I used thin sheet metal in the past. I will probably use it again. It is hard to make it air tight though. I need some fire proof caulk....anyone know what I could use there. I will look at Home Depot.

I have had the boat since 96. In 2001 I replaced the exhaust with black pipe. It failed this year. I made this up, same as before, 1 1/4 black/galvanized/iron pipe. I used a short piece of brass to connect from the iron to the standpipe. I dont want to have iron going into the stand pipe. It is too hard to take apart without destroying the threads.

The weight bothers me. It weighed in at 27 pounds, for the whole thing. It is bolted to the bulkhead securely. I just dont like the rigid mounting. I know that cars have a flexible short pipe/coupling. I should look into that too.
Anyone have experience with them?

I guess other questions are:

Could 1 1/4 pipe be bent to fit, instead of using fittings for the shape?
I know that Tom Stevens had a failure with SS, so has anyone used brass or bronze pipe for the exhaust? When I priced the fittings for the job:
Iron $97, brass $262, SS $162. This was just online at plumbingsupply .com As you can see the brass costs is the highest, but to me, not that high, if i knew it would last longer.

Has anyone built a water jacketed exhaust? I still am thinking about trying to do that. I have always been Leary of having that hot exhaust in the boat. I find it hard to understand that so many boats have a hot exhaust, and no fires.

Sometimes I just need to get it done, and go sailing. I wont be sailing for a few months now. I dont sail in the summer here in SW Florida. Too hot, not enough wind, afternoon lightening that scares my wife. I guess I am too dumb to be scared by lightening.

The pipe has three layers if insulation. I think that the air flow will make a big difference. I have to improve that. I also think about using an inline blower instead of the standard blower.

It is funny, I have a spare blower that I have been carring around for 10 years. It is rated at 150 CFM, and cost today is $135. West has two shurflow "heavy duty" blowers. 3" 120 CFM $34, or 4" 220 CFM $ 37. So I might just add one of these on the top. Maybe one will fit on the top of the standpipe. Will see.
I read that blowers are not made for continuous duty, but it seems that many captains use then that way, and they keep going.

BTW, the picture is taken looking to port, with the engine forward of my position. The 2 air holes are just visible. There are wire ties on the hose at the same level as the holes. A cabinet goes around the pipe, making it square.

[ArtJ]

Looks good I would add a piece of stove pipe to the bottom corner area.
MY black iron is on it's 13 th season and seems to still be solid. However;
I am in Boston and the boat is out of the water 7 mos per year. It is also
flushed out with fresh water at the close of the season.

That Calcimate (sp?) stuff comes in hard " half round pipes and used
used for industrial plant pipe insulation. It will do the job, but must
be sprayed with a coating to prevent shedding. Speak to Tom STevens
for details.

Best Regards

Art

[sastanley]

One more idea..

Computer fans are 12v. I put one (120v) in my stereo cabinet because my TiVo box was getting hot. These are not high volume fans, but perhaps you could have one pulling from a cooler area of the boat and helping with natural convection that will allow the hot air to rise..then you gotta find a place to vent it.

The bilge blower is not really designed as a cooling device..it is designed to have the intake hose at the bottom of the bilge where dangerous fumes collect and evacuate them from the bilge prior to starting.

I feel your pain on that whole set up with the standpipe in the cabin and near cabinetry..the extra areas of heat seems to be its only drawback.

Is your standpipe already enclosed in some type of long skinny box? What about lining the enclosure with engine room insulation?

[Ball Racing]

I used bronze or rather listed as red brass for my first piece-nipple out of the flange out of the manifold, and it would start coming loose every other trip, and needed to be re tightened into the flange adaptor, and I finally ran out of threads to go tighter.
Seems with the heat of the exhaust it softens the bronze and it slightly collapses, and strecthed.
I replaced the first nipple with black iron, and left the rest bronze and it's okay now.

[romantic comedy]

I have used those little cooling fans around the boat. They move tiny amounts of air. Good for some things. Probably not for this.

I agree that the blower fans are not for cooling.... What fan can I use???
The blower moves at least 100 CFM.

The more i think about it, the more i think that I will try to make a coil of 1/2 inch copper tubing around the exhaust. At first I thought it like a rig job. Now I think it might be a good idea. I just need to see about diameter and getting the tubing and bending it.

[hanleyclifford]

Have you thought about diverting a portion of your raw water discharge thru a copper coil running around the hot section and dumping at the top of the standpipe, as opposed to an anti freeze loop?

[Marty Levenson]

another kind of insulation

On our Tartan 27 the glass above the exhaust heat riser got so hot you couldn't sit there. Very worrying. In 2006 I got a custom insulation housing, which worked great and was about $125 I think. I wish I could recall what the material is a called. Completely solved the problem.

[hanleyclifford]

Marty - That is a superlative device, but it is a heat container rather than a dissipater which I think is what is being considered.