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-   -   Hoisting the engine (https://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4808)

ILikeRust 01-08-2011 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndutton (Post 31048)
Don't quote me but as best I recall the lift point of the eye places a torque load onto the head surface as opposed to a dead lift on the studs.

Now that I think about it, yeah, that makes sense, because unless the lifting eye is directly above the absolute center of mass, the engine will tilt one way or the other, placing a lateral strain on the studs. Given that the studs are merely 3/8" diameter, they easily could flex just a bit, transferring that strain to the head. OK, now I can see how it could cause a cracked head or other undesirable result.

ILikeRust 01-08-2011 10:41 AM

Based on the photos I've seen, it also seems to me that there were a couple different designs of lifting "eyes". On mine, it's not really a lifting eye so much as an alternator mounting bracket. That is, there is not separate ring for lifting - it's just a folded steel bracket with two "ears" bent up, each with a hole through it, for the alternator mounting bolt to go through. The only way to use it as a lifting eye is to remove the alternator to open up those holes.

Also, mine is held on with only two studs. I've seen others that are larger and held on with four. I'm pondering the possibility of fabricating a new one, using the same thickness steel, but that goes across the head and engages two more studs, so it would distribute the lifting load across four studs instead of just those two.

But again, maybe it would just be simpler to use straps going under the engine and avoid the whole lifting eye issue.

Ain't it interesting how we all over analyze this stuff to death?

thatch 01-08-2011 10:44 AM

'On second thought"
 
Neil,
Very interesting thread. After looking at the Moyer panoramic view engine(top angle) it would appear that there is considerable side leverage placed on the 2 studs used for the lifting ring. It also looks like it would be a relatively easy project to add a small angle iron bracket bolted to side of the ring to pick up the next stud toward the transmission end of the engine.

Laker 01-08-2011 10:49 AM

It has recently occurred to me that , along with the benefit of a wealth of knowledge I have gained through this forum in the past few months , I now have an increasing list of things to worry about.

Lifting ring ...

ndutton 01-08-2011 10:53 AM

Whatever you do, don't buy one of those infrared thermometer thingys.

thatch 01-08-2011 10:59 AM

Neil,
How true it is!
Tom

roadnsky 01-08-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndutton (Post 31059)
Whatever you do, don't buy one of those infrared thermometer thingys.

HEY!!! :cool:

roadnsky 01-08-2011 11:46 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Guys-
To add to the conversation, I'd offer something much safer and stronger than a ratchet strap for lifting.
In the industry that I work in we always use a strap called a SPANSET.
They're used for lifting everything from projectors and speakers to holding up lighting truss rigs.
They cost about the same as a ratchet strap but a $12 Spanset has a tensile strength of 5300 lbs per inch! Overkill, but...
They're also designed for lifting WITHOUT damaging the spot where they contact what they're lifting.

Here are just a few quick sites that I found that carry them.

http://www.rosebrand.com/product757/...526%2BSpansets
http://www.stagespot.com/cgi-bin/sho...tion&key=ENR2X
http://www.spanset-usa.com/lifting-rigchoice.cfm

If you know someone that works in the convention or lighting industry, you could likely borrow a couple of them.
Anyway, just thought I "throw" that out there as an option...

Marian Claire 01-08-2011 05:17 PM

Here’s to the lighting guys. A friend at the marina let me use his electric “stage” winch to lift my A-4. I used some of my old climbing webbing for the sling. After 30+ years she was dirty and oily and it got all over the webbing. Dan S/V Marian Claire

67c&ccorv 01-08-2011 06:41 PM

To all Atomic 4 owners past, present and future;

I, 67c&ccorv...do hearby declare that I will not be held personally responsible for "crushed oil pan" symdrome as a result of this thread!:D

Now where is that guy with the IR thermometer?:mad:

ButchPetty 01-09-2011 07:08 AM

My hoisting experience....
 
...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uu9O40dbgU

ILikeRust 01-09-2011 05:08 PM

Well I went out to the boatyard today and spent a few hours on the boat. They had towed it from my slip over to the boatyard and hauled her on Thursday, while I was at work. So when I showed up, it took me a few minutes to find her. They've got some way cool boats on the hard there.

I removed the bulkhead in front of the engine, all three batteries and the battery box for the two house batteries. Then I disconnected everything connected to the engine and removed the prop shaft bolts and engine mounting bolts. I also yanked the manifold and brought it home.

At this point, the engine is completely disconnected and just sitting in there, waiting to be plucked from its resting place.

I'll post a couple pics once I process them from the camera.

ILikeRust 01-09-2011 08:13 PM

Here she is on the hard:

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/u...1/SUC53450.jpg

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/u...1/SUC53453.jpg

Here's the engine in its sorry old engine box:

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/u...SUC53454-1.jpg'

The previous owner relocated the manual bilge pump there, but it's never been hooked up. So you could merrily pump away at nothing. I took it off and plan on relocating it back up to the cockpit somewhere.

Here it is after I removed the bulkhead, the manifold, the batteries and the battery box:

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/u...1/SUC53455.jpg

Yeesh, huh? A bit of a mess. I'm going to replace that big, rusty old bilge pump with a modern one.

Of course, while trying to keep the prop shaft from turning so I could unbolt the flange from the back of the engine, I managed to drop the pipe wrench in the bilge. I did this immediately after I had the thought, "hmm, I wonder if I should tie a leash onto the pipe wrench in case I dro..... o, crap."

I didn't actually say "o crap", though. I said much, much worse than that.

I couldn't reach it, and won't be able to until the engine is out of there. Fortunately, I managed to get the prop shaft unbolted anyhow.

Laker 01-09-2011 08:45 PM

Rust ,

Refresh me , please , as to what model / design your boat is. Shoal draft ; centerboarder?

The Virginia pines look nice.

Laker

(Packers won.)

ILikeRust 01-09-2011 09:11 PM

She's a 1968 Pearson Wanderer 30. She's got 3,800 lbs of lead in the keel and draws 3'6" with the centerboard up and 6'9" with it down.

lat 64 01-10-2011 02:36 PM

That's a very pretty hull.
I bet she sails straight.

I have that same old PAR bilge pump— circa 1985?. I went through mine and cleaned it up a bit. it works well. If you are really chucking it, maybe I can give you a few bucks for it? The more bilge pumps I have, the merrier I am.

I'll fix anything–it's personality flaw in me.

Russ

ILikeRust 01-10-2011 04:05 PM

I'm not chucking the bilge pump - it's in excellent working condition. Near as I can tell, it's never been used - it appears totally clean inside.

I plan on locating it somewhere up in/near the cockpit, rather than down there in the cabin. Doesn't make sense to me to have it down there, plus it never was hooked up anyhow, so it was doing no good where it was. I want to hook it up in the cockpit or lazarette or something so it's quickly accessible up above.

hanleyclifford 01-10-2011 04:09 PM

Before you mount it anywhere check the "head" at which it is rated. Get the #s off the housing and check the Jabsco specs.

lat 64 01-10-2011 05:33 PM

Bill,
I was lusting after your electric "big, rusty old bilge pump", not your manual pump.

I too, am going to finally mount up my Whale brand manual pump next spring.
I want to put it where I could pump it while driving the boat. I figure nothing beats a scared man with a bucket, but you can't steer the boat while running up and down the companionway steps.

cheers,
Russ

ILikeRust 01-10-2011 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lat 64 (Post 31165)
Bill,
I was lusting after your electric "big, rusty old bilge pump", not your manual pump.

Ah.

Well, assuming I find a suitable replacement, you can have it.

sastanley 01-10-2011 10:08 PM

Bill, looking good...at work, pretty much any outside hosted pictures are blocked, so I am finally getting to view them at home. Wood boxes are easy to replace!!

Those PAR pumps are nice, but as Lat64 commented, those manual Whale pumps are sought after as well. My stepfather has one of each on his Tartan 3000.

I don't quite have the heart to cut a big enough hole in the boat for the Whale pump yet, but I am working on it...the gray cylinder bicycle style pump I have now as my manual would never keep up with a serious breech.

ILikeRust 01-11-2011 09:06 AM

Tempting fate, I will say that the bilge is amazingly tight and dry in my boat. The only water ever in it appears to come only from the various leaking deck hardware when it rains - and the leaking head gasket on the engine.

There is just an inch or two of water in the lowest point, and that's it. There never is enough for the bilge pump to even pick up. Just out of routine, I turn the pump on, it goes "gurgle gurgle", nothing comes out, and I turn it off.

The previous owner told me that was his experience with the boat for the eight years he owned it - a very dry bilge, to the point that you practically don't need a bilge pump at all.

Of course, I'm not going to be foolish and go without one.

The problem I have is that what passes for a "bilge" on my boat is a very narrow space down in the keel. So you can't fit a standard submersible, automatic bilge pump down in there. I need either a pump that can self-prime and suck up water via a hose, or a very skinny little pump that can squeeze down in that small space. Or maybe a couple small pumps like that.

diver53207 01-11-2011 10:47 AM

I recently pulled my A4 from my 27' O'Day and was also very worried about concentrating the load in such a small spot on the boom. I used the nylon coated braided steel wire that would be similar to that used in a bicycle locking cable and attached eyes to both ends. I wrapped this around my boom and then attached the main halyard directly to the windings around the boom. ( it was wrapped three times) I attached a come-a-long to eyes and to the A4. This put almost all the weight on the halyard and not on the boom. Makes sure you buy a come-a-long long enough for your needs. As once I tied off the halyard I did not move it for an up/down adjustment only a side to side. Hope it helps!

lat 64 01-11-2011 12:13 PM

Bill,
Cool, just let me know how much. Get a dependable replacement first for sure.
64n147watsymbolgmaildottkom

On my little ship I have installed:
one new small Rule bilge pump(automatic),
one old "overhauled" PAR pump(automatic),
and a big bucket.

To be installed:
one Whale hand pump,
an extra pick up hose with; ball valve teed to raw-water intake, and screened foot,
maybe Bill's old pump,
and another big bucket.

The first rule of boating; keep the water out.

Russ

Oh, and let's not forget the shower sump pump (not installed yet)

Marian Claire 01-11-2011 12:42 PM

I smell another poll. What kind of de-watering devices do you have and do you know they work? Dan S/V Marian Claire
And welcome Diver


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