Launchpad McQ's Catalina 30 Atomic 4 Saga
 

Hello fellow A-4ians! It’s finally time to give back to the community for all of the wisdom, advice, and encouragement I’ve gleaned from this forum. This thread has been years in the making, literally. For the past 3 years, I’ve been lurking in the shadows, reading dozens of threads while learning, fixing, tinkering, tweaking, tuning, and sometimes cussing at my Atomic 4. My original intent was to document the rebuilding process and then “thread dump” the entire entertaining narrative with pictures so that it could be read chronologically without interruption from humble beginning to victorious end, and all would be the wiser. It hasn’t worked out as planned.

If you’re reading this thread you probably fall into 1 of 2 camps: Camp 1 is the number of experienced, helpful, friendly, and frequent contributors to this site reading for entertainment. To this group I want to say thank you. Without you all, this engine and possibly the entire boat would be in a San Francisco scrap yard. However this thread is really written for those in Camp 2. Those considering fixing up an old boat with an Atomic-4 and looking at that block of rusting metal wondering, “what did I get myself into?”

If you’re in Camp 2 and reading this thread for perspective, or maybe even motivation (like I usually did) let me assure you that when armed with the combined wisdom of this forum and a little resolve, anyone is capable of rebuilding, maintaining, or improving an Atomic-4 powered boat. Seemingly all of the common “problems” you could ever encounter with this engine have already been thoroughly identified and the necessary repair techniques well documented (valve sticking, overheating, poor performance, etc) on this forum by the collective braintrust of frequent contributors People often say, “If I can do it anyone can do it.” Believe me when I say my IQ pales in comparison to most of the chimpanzees at the zoo so there’s no excuse to be intimidated by the tasks. Without further ado, grab a beer and some popcorn because this is going to take a while. Here’s my saga:

***Late 2019 Update*** If you'd like to skip the backstory of all my clueless ill-fated attempts to fix the engine that ultimately led to a full-rebuild, skip to the bottom of page 3 to see the motor getting pulled out of the bilge.

In 2013 after much discussion with my wife, I accepted a job in San Francisco. The only problem was that we live in Denver and for a variety of reasons, didn’t have any intention to relocate. The job would require frequent travel and I would only be in San Francisco a couple days a week. Therefore, I needed a place to sleep and didn’t want to spend that time in hotels. A friend working for the same company suggested, “Why don’t you buy an old crappy sailboat off Craigslist? You can fix it up when you have time, sleep on it a couple nights a week, and when you’re done with it you can just sell it and get your money back.” The seed had been planted.

The Craigslist search turned up a handful of boats under our modest $6500 budget but whenever I was able to get a seller to commit to a meeting, there was always some serious deficiency with the boat that would require significant time, money, or both to rectify. (One boat had suffered a fire, then sinking, and still sported a one-inch hole in the hull). Having lived in Colorado my entire life, I didn’t know much about boats but I did know one thing; we could not afford to pay someone else to fix whatever problems we inherited with our purchase. Then one day it appeared:
Attachment 13199
Me: “Honey I found our future boat!”
Wife: “How much?”
Me: “$6500! Its within our budget!”
Wife: “If it doesn’t need any additional work…..”
Me: “How much work could it need? It says the motor was rebuilt in ’09. I’ll bet it just needs a new set of spark plugs and some gas!”
Wife: “Seriously, the motor is called an ‘Atomic?’ Don’t you see the irony in that?
Me: “Yeah I’ll bet because it’s so powerful, like an Atomic reactor!”
Wife: “What is ‘Standing Rigging’?”
Me: “I don’t know but it’s standing!”
Wife: “What does ‘haul-out’ mean?”
Me: “I don’t know. Maybe it’s sailing slang for partying on a boat for 2 days straight, ya know, like, ‘hey everybody lets get some beer and go out for a haul out!”
Wife: “What’s a ‘Genoa’?”
Me: “Isn’t that like pepperoni but more expensive? You know I don’t cook fancy stuff.”
Wife: “No, it sounds like part of the boat, and apparently it’s torn. How much is that to fix?”
Me: “Why are you being so negative!? It has BBQ grill! I mean a real BBQ, like, for BBQ-ing! I’m going to go look at it. I’ll call you after I’m done.”
Wife: “Okay just don’t buy it before we talk about it more.”
2 Hours later….
Me: “We’re boat owners honey!”
Attachment 13202
Attachment 13201

....and so it began.

"like an atomic reactor" That made me laugh. Welcome to the madness.

James

I need a "like" button :D

Oh yea, it's time to break something!

I mean, like:
break a bolt,
break some skin,
Break Out Another Thousand,
Break out the beer.

Lookitmeeeeimonaboat!

...in that order.. :rolleyes::D

Armed with a six-pack of Fat Tire, an In-N-Out double-double "Animal Style" cheeseburger, teriyaki beef jerky, a bottle of Simple Green and some rags, I naively thought I had everything I needed to whip our new ‘yacht’ into shape. Soon I’d be swashbuckling my way up the San Francisco bay with my proud wife by my side, helm in one hand, a beer in the other. “Ahoy sweetheart! There be landfall! What say ye lass we moor up on the Embarcadero and fetch ourselves some crab cake sandwiches?” In hindsight, the only analogy I can conceive to illustrate how utterly clueless I was to every part of that dream I had concocted, would be the idea of a junior varsity quarterback showing up to an NFL training camp and expecting a starting position. In my defense, the Craigslist ad said “rebuilt in 2009” so I figured a can of carb cleaner, some new spark plugs, and I’d be back in business. As I soon discovered, I'd need the beer more than anything.

Attachment 13209

In order to gain better access for the engine autopsy I removed the galley cabinet assembly and set it aside. In the ensuing years of engine work yoga, I'd come to appreciate what a tremendous luxury we Catalina 30 owners have when it comes to engine access compared to our companionway-engined brethren.

Attachment 13211

This being the first boat I’ve ever owned, I had little understanding of what I was even looking at, or where I should begin my troubleshooting. “Why does the exhaust pipe go into a white plastic box?” (Water lift muffler) “Why is there a rubber trailer plug with wires in the engine compartment?” (Catalina engine wiring harness) “Why is the engine painted vomit-green?” (Still don’t know) These were just a few of the questions I had. As I surveyed the engine compartment for any obvious abnormalities I stumbled upon what could’ve ended up being this boat's (and my) demise. The previous owner had carelessly routed the gas line from the gas tank to the electric fuel pump next to the hot exhaust hose which had chafed through the outer sheath and almost into the core. I didn’t know much about boats, but I knew what an incredibly serious accident that could've resulted. With that single discovery, it was obvious that I couldn’t trust anything the previous owner had done to the boat.

Attachment 13213

Well, well, well
 

Wow, a rare U shape dinette layout. Here are a few more things to check, many of them critical:

• Lower chainplates - if you have the U bolt style you're good. If they are the square top single hole style they need to be changed ASAP, available from Catalina Direct
• Wood spreaders - must be checked for rot especially at the inboard ends under the aluminum cheek plates. Some owners convert to aluminum (Catalina Direct again), others replace with wood.
• The engine harness trailer plug you've already seen - you have at least two in the harness, possibly a third. Get rid of 'em.
• Catalina factory waterlift - it's known for cracks and leakage at the base.
• Aft lower knee bulkheads - known for rot and yours are the originals. Better check the main bulkhead while you're at it.
• Mast compression post support in the bilge - known to rot as well.
• Anti-siphon between the engine and the exhaust hot pipe is missing. The factory installed one, looks like whoever did the engine work removed it. Good way to backflood an engine.

There, that ought to get you going.

Re: "...thought I had everything I needed to whip our new ‘yacht’ into shape", That's just the inventory kit.
Re: "...a starting position", Heck, you're the captain now.
Re: chafed fuel hose, This is why it's a VERY good plan to sit and stare at your engine while enjoying a Fat Tire. And, a good time to reflect on why the Coast Guard in their wisdom requires such a short distance from fuel pump to carb on gasoline inboard engines; It is so that for most of the length of the routed fuel hose, it has negative pressure—it sucks. If it develops a leak, and it will, it then sucks air into the line, not squirt fuel out so much. The faltering engine will demand repair from you so it DOES get fixed.

Re: Simple green, kinda stinks. After you get it cleaned up, I'd switch to good ol' vinegar. It outgases in a few hours, and is easier on the respiratory ailments of guests. Cheap and enviro-friendly too.

Re: "...of that dream I had concocted", That's why I even bother to get out of bed every morning. Keep on that.


Russ

Hi Neil! I figured you'd drop by before too long. As always you hit the nail on the head, and our Catalina is no exception to the laundry list of standard "old Catalina 30" deficiencies. We're only partially through the list of remediations and unfortunately most of the chainplate repair work will need to wait until we have a running, reliable, Atomic 4 able to assist us in getting back up to the boatyard. (We've apparently discovered the limit of the "unlimited" BoatUS towing insurance. More on that later)
We have the original square-top, single hole to be addressed:
Attachment 13217

For any new Catalina 30 owners possibly in the audience, here's a thread that provides a good summation of why the original chainplates deserve attention
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...rprise.180844/
so this doesn't happen...
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Ours are the original (sitka spruce?) wood. I don't have any pictures of those to share because most of our immediate problems have been below deck, in the general vicinity of the engine compartment so that's been the majority of my photojournalism efforts. I plan on replacing the wood with the aftermarket aluminum spreaders whenever we end up taking the mast down.
Already gone like the 2017 Broncos playoff hopes ;) All of our wiring was especially atrocious (yes that’s a wire nut used as a splice) so those got replaced early in the project. More on that later.Attachment 13219

Ours aren't too bad. Pictures to follow.
Yep, we've got the rot and the associated compression post/mast settling. That'll be addressed when the mast comes down.
That's all done too. I'll probably have pictures and the story for that somewhere around upcoming post #356. Haha ;)

Nice..keep up the good work.

Before I get too far, I should be specific regarding exactly what the problem was as I knew it. I purchased the boat from the previous owner with the engine in a "no-crank, no-start" condition. Zip, zero, nada when I turned the key. The PO claimed he had "taken the boat to his 'car guy' over in Alameda who had 'rebuilt' the engine." He said that he then motored/sailed it back to his slip in Redwood City (15-ish miles down the Bay) where the boat sat for *awhile* unused. When he attempted to start the engine after the hiatus, it wouldn't start and out of frustration he purchased a 4hp Mercury outboard, installed it on a pivoting transom mount and called it a day. I know, I know,...now. I should've seen it coming a mile away. :rolleyes: Why didn't he demand his mechanic fix it? Why did he "give up" after just having "spent all that money on a rebuild?" What exactly did the "rebuild" entail? All valid questions. Truth be told by this point hotel expenses were adding up, I wasn't finding any other suitable boats on Craigslist, and I was getting impatient. When the PO agreed to drop the price to $5k, I thought the price drop would cover any repairs necessary to make the engine operational. (Not even close)

With my limited mechanical knowledge at the time, I started my troubleshooting with the starter. The first car I ever owned was a 1976 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup with a 350 V8 who's starter bendix had a tendency to "freeze up." My remedy was always to hop underneath and smack it with a hammer while a friend would turn the key which usually worked. Not this time. I was met with the frustrating sound of silence every time I turned the key. About this time my dock neighbor happened to stop by and seeing my obvious frustration, offered to take a look. What followed was an all-to-common conversation which I'm sure many here have had. It went something like this:

Well-intentioned dock neighbor: "Oh, its an Atomic 4? I thought it had a diesel. Are you sure you want to bother fixing that old thing?"
Me: "Well, I have to. It's what the boat has and I don't have the money to repower with a diesel."
Well-intentioned dock neighbor: "Well, I mean, you could probably find an old diesel on Craigslist for a couple grand. Just drop one of those in and you'll be set!"
Me: "I only paid $5,000 for the boat to begin with."
Well-intentioned dock neighbor: "Even better! When you're done, the boat will be worth $10,000!"
Me: "I don't have the tools, time, or knowledge to do that. Besides, I want to start using the boat, like, soon."
Well-intentioned dock neighbor: "Be careful with that Atomic 4. Those things are dangerous. It's a gas engine after all. They have a tendency to catch on fire. In fact, they all catch on fire. Every one of them. Yours will catch fire. It will burn, the boat will explode, you'll be launched over the Golden Gate like Evel Knievel's failed motorcycle jump at Ceaser's Palace, the Coast Guard will pull you out of the water in a Jayhawk helicopter, give you a fine for negligence, and you'll be the laughing stock of the marina for the next millennia.":rolleyes:

Okay so he didn't exactly say that but pretty much. And many other well-intentioned dockside "helpers" would too in the months to come. However, my neighbor did impart some wisdom when he asked "Do you know if the motor even turns?" Ummmmmm, uhhhhhh, no I didn't. I noticed a pin on the front of the crankshaft that looked like I could fashion up a socket and breaker bar set-up and turn the motor by hand. (No I didn't know Moyer Marine, or this forum existed and that Moyer sells a tool exactly for turning the crank when I went through all this trouble) So I "modified" a perfectly good 14mm socket with my Dremel to slip over the crankpin:

Attachment 13225

Yank! Push! Ug! Marf! Wouldn't ya know it, the engine didn't budge. Time for a bigger breaker bar! Yes! That'll do it!

Attachment 13226

To know what would happen next, you don't need to be a rocket scientist but you need to be smarter than I was. The engine didn't so much as squeak a tiny bit loose but the feeling of sudden rotation was from 1/2 of the crankpin shearing off. Sh#%*

Attachment 13235

So there I had it. Learning had occurred. Apparently when an internal combustion engine sits idle in the marine environment for too long, the pistons and various other moving parts can become immobile. This just went from a simple "spark plugs and gas" fix, to something much more. My dock neighbor suggested removing the spark plugs, squirting some Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders to soak the piston rings in hopes of helping them unfreeze from the cylinder wall. I figured $3.88 of Marvel Mystery oil was a cheap gamble, so I squirted some in every few days for a month while I turned my attention to other things.

To be continued...

P.S. I know these posts are a little lengthy but I'm in no rush with the narrative since I'm still in the midst of a rebuild. However for the A.D.D. crowd, I thought a Clif Notes summary of what I learned and what I'd do differently could be helpful. So....

What I learned

• Many sailors have an irrational prejudice against the Atomic 4 but can't point to specific examples of catastrophe vs its diesel counterparts

• The people who possess the knowledge to help you fix an A-4 are more likely on this forum than on the dock..unless one of the frequent contributors here happens to be on your dock

• Engines shouldn't sit unused for a long time. More boats seem to suffer problems from disuse rather than overuse

What I'd do differently

• Ask the seller more questions about the boat's history/maintenance/ etc

• Search the Moyer forum for an existing thread pretaining to the problem at hand. Failing that...

• Call Moyer and talk to Ken

Marine engines won't seize just from sitting idle. There had to have been water incursion into the combustion chambers and/or crankcase. With the crankshaft roll pin sheared off I don't see any way this will be resolved in situ. The engine is coming out of its hole sooner or later, may as well get after it.

In addition to getting things unseized you have to find the source of the water incursion or risk it happening again. Possibilities are manifold breach, head crack, water jacket breach, over cranking with the thru-hull open and maybe a few more I've overlooked.

If you decide to try and repair it in the boat you can fashion a pretty decent work bench with a couple layers of 3/4" plywood over the engine space. As a lifting means use the main halyard and a block & tackle, come-along or whatever sparred out by the boom (boom in compression only, all engine load borne by the halyard-tackle rig). The main hatch is plenty big enough to give you a clear shot at the engine. Be sure to check the forum archives for lifting eye shortcomings on older engines.

"More boats seem to suffer problems from disuse rather than overuse"
So wise for so young.

Welcome to the forum, or whatever it's called, Johnathan.

Jonathan, thanks for keeping us updated with your detailed posts. I am indeed interested in your progress with your A4, as it looks like you and I may be doing A4 overhaul's simultaneously. In my case, my daughter just bought a sweet Tartan 30 in the bay area with a bad A4, and I'm about to take on a rebuild of one to swap in. I also own my own Tartan 30 with a perfectly running A4, so I'm getting to know this old iron pretty intimately.

Good luck and keep up the progress posts!

McQ, You've already got the galley out, now you just put a hose clamp on the prop shaft so it doesn't slide out of the stuffing box, and yank the motor with a 4:1 purchase on the boom. Let's get to work!:cool:

Following your progress with bated breath, McQ. Have already found a lengthy checklist of things to check on my '82 Catalina 30.

I didn't remember before but it turns out I had a detailed picture of the offending lower chainplate and a picture of the proper replacement.

So, I am the 2nd owner of my boat, and the fitting Neil shows failed and dropped the rig in 1987 before I owned it..But in 1987 they replaced it with the same single bolt!! I replaced all this nonsense with the U-bolt upgrade from Catalina Direct when I took the rig down in 2012-ish.

He does not need any encouragement to pull the engine - this thread is a recounting of how he got to be in the middle of a complete rebuild.

But, maybe I have read that wrong.

Peter

Yep Neil you're absolutely right. Although if I had started this thread in 2013 when I was actually at this point in the process, I would've been in complete denial about the necessity of removing the engine to make it operational, and tried to find every excuse to repair it somehow in the boat.

*Spoiler Alert*
At this point, the engine has been removed from the boat for a complete rebuild, although in a much more entertaining way than you can probably imagine. Read on. Here we go!

After a month of frequent Marvel Mystery Oil squirts into the cylinders via the open spark plug holes, I figured that the piston rings would've been unstuck from the cylinder walls by this point, or they wouldn't. Either way, I'd have a resolution to the question of why the engine wouldn't turn. However, the dilemma remained that I only had 1/2 of the crankshaft timing roll pin upon which to leverage my homemade socket/breaker bar set up and rotate the engine by hand. It was my last hope before things got expensive. I felt like Dennis Quaid in the movie remake Flight of the Phoenix when he's trying to start the engine of the wrecked-and-rebuilt C-119 airplane in the Gobi desert with his last remaining shotgun shell before the charging tribe of horseback-riding bandits overruns the crew and certain death results. With a firm yet gentle grip of the oversized breaker bar, I oh-so-carefully started pulling, hoping for the engine to give up its stubborness in reluctant submission and rotate. And....Bam! As you can probably guess, the breaker bar broke free of the crankshaft with a tremendous "clank!" and I went flying across the salon while somehow managing not to impale myself on the breaker bar itself or slam my head through one of my leaky portlights. I rushed back to the flywheel, inspected the front of the crankshaft to discover my fears had been realized. I had just sheared off the other 1/2 of the roll pin and in so doing, eliminated any hope of getting the engine to turn without a complete teardown...or did I?

Maybe it's my Polish ancestry or my unwillingness to accept defeat but I knew there had to be something else I could do to get this motor to rotate without spending money. I had a 3' galvanized steel pipe, an 8 lb sledge hammer, and a 6-pack of beer onboard. Shouldn't that be enough? As it turns out, yes it was. All the sudden it dawned on me to remove the starter, place one end of my breaker bar pipe through the starter cutout hole in the flywheel cover and onto the teeth of the flywheel to gain more rotational leverage, then hammer on the other end of the pipe with the sledge hammer (it works especially well when you're hammering out of frustration). You'd think this would be a terrific way to destroy a perfectly good flywheel by chipping off some teeth but surprisingly the galvanized steel pipe was no match for the seemingly hardened steel teeth of the Atomic flywheel. I could hardly believe it but with every successive bang of the hammer, I felt the flywheel turn a few degrees. Victory!

After a few more squirts of MMO in the cylinders for good measure, I was able to re-install the starter, attach a cheap trigger-style remote starter up to the starter solenoid's terminals (bypassing the keyed ignition switch and infamous failure-prone rubber Catalina "trailer plugs" in the engine wiring harness) and get the engine to crank. So I had just improved my situation from a no-crank, no-start problem to a crank, no-start problem, and I couldn't have been happier. I sat out in the cockpit that night with a beer in hand, basking in the glory of a small victory and patting myself on the back for the stroke of Polish ingenuity when my well-intentioned dock neighbor came walking down the dock. Remember that guy? That guy from post #12? Yeah, that guy. As I enthusiastically recounted the story of the day's success he listened patiently and replied, "Good job! Well, I guess you'll be removing the head tomorrow to take a look at the valves. At least head gaskets for that thing are probably cheap. I think there's a website called Mayer's or Moyer's or something where you can get parts for it. Just Google search 'Atomic 4' and you'll find 'em." :eek: "Why the hell would I do that!" I thought to myself. I just went through all that effort for the exact purpose of not removing the cylinder head. He could probably see the indignant look on my face, when he immediately followed with "You've gotta at least take a look at those valves. If you don't, you're just wasting your time." That night I got online, came to this forum, and started reading through every thread I could find that sounded remotely like it applied to my situation. Of course I'd soon find out there were many threads that applied to many different problems I'd inherited with this neglected motor. I just didn't know it yet. By the end of the night I came to the conclusion that my neighbor was probably right and I needed to take a look at the valves to ensure everything was in working order. Next order of business:

Attachment 13236
Off with the head!

What I learned

• If for any reason you were to shear off the crankshaft timing roll pin like I did, because of interference with the flywheel studs, it's very difficult if not impossible to replace the pin in place. More importantly, the pin is used for visually setting the engine timing to Top-Dead-Center so when it's broken/missing, it's a PITA to get the timing right. (More on that later)
• A trigger-style remote starter is a very useful piece of equipment on a boat, especially when the ignition switch is up in the cockpit and you're trying to diagnose/fix ignition related issues by yourself down in the engine compartment.

What I'd do differently

• Avoid shearing a fastener that doesn't want to move and thereby making the situation exponentially worse (Unfortunately I'll learn this lesson the hard way in an upcoming post)

Obviously I was not as aware as Peter that this was a 5 year old saga so I'll stop making suggestions and enjoy the story.

Dang, I missed that too. I was thinking Launchpad and I would be rebuilding A4's together here. Oh well, I get to read on and learn from his amusing mistakes!

I hope you'll keep the suggestions coming Neil (and everyone else), even if it's for things I've already done. That's exactly what I'm hoping to accomplish with this thread. To provide an informative and entertaining story of my journey from absolutely zero knowledge of boats/Atomic 4s to having a seaworthy, safe boat powered by a running, reliable Atomic 4. Along the way I seem to have hit every pothole in the road when it comes to this engine and I want others to benefit from my saga. Once I get the posts caught up to present day, there will still be plenty of fresh questions to bounce off the group in order to complete the rebuild.

We may very well be at the exact same point in the process wristwister. I'm still rebuilding too, it just took me a looooong time to come to the realization that I needed to perform a complete teardown. In the meantime, I attempted every band-aid, half-measure repair that I could to avoid removing the engine from the boat with varying degrees of success. My problems weren't as obvious as a golf-ball sized hole in the block but ultimately I may end up needing a new block as well. We'll see.

As for my amusing mistakes, buckle up because I've only scratched the surface of sharing my screw ups. From here on out they only get more significantly idiotic, hapless, and avoidable. If by the end of this process you're not totally convinced of the fact that I have no business owning a boat, or even a car for that matter, I'll be shocked. There's a reason I chose Launchpad McQuack from the '80's cartoon "Duck Tales" as my avatar. I felt the overconfident, clueless-but-likeable character from that cartoon who despite the odds always managed to save the day, matched up pretty well with my M.O. when it comes to boats. That being said, people (usually my generation or younger) frequently ask "How did you learn to__?(fill in the blank) and my answer is always the same: “Any way I can.” Whether it's fixing internal combustion engines, rewiring a house, or climbing 14,000' mountains, there seems to be this new prevailing notion that you either acquired the knowledge from a wise Grandpa during childhood otherwise you're destined to tolerate inoperative engines, broken light switches, and an indoor lifestyle. It's ludicrous. Anything that I've truly learned, I've done so by trial and error. But mostly error. My grandparents all passed away when I was young so there wasn't much opportunity to impart any wisdom. And my Dad? Hahaha! Oh man. Let's just say he's the least mechanically-inclined person you've ever met. When I was a kid, he blew up a 1985 Toyota Tercel because he ran it out of oil. It's a good thing my Dad never tried to help me build an Estes model rocket because if he did, I would've ended up with 3rd degree burns and he would've lost an eye. Seriously. It's the same thing I tell my 74 year old mom when it comes to learning how to use a smartphone. Learn by doing. Or in the words of Sir Richard Branson, "Screw it lets do it!" I have a willingness to learn, some tools, a tolerant-if-not-supportive wife, beer in the fridge for when things go wrong, beer in the fridge for when things go right, and I refuse to quit. I don't need anything else to win. ;)

I apologize in advance for the frequency of posts (or lack thereof). In addition to this seemingly never-ending boat project, my wife and I just had our first child, and we're (hopefully) nearing the end of a 1-1/2 year major house renovation of our 106 year old house in Denver. What can I say? We like fixing old things that most other people throw in the towel on. I'm sure I'll elaborate more on that adventure later as it relates to the boat.

So I had successfully "unfrozen" the motor and gotten it to crank but decided I needed to remove the head to look at the valves. In removing the head, I guess I was just more lucky than skilled but I didn't encounter any problems that others have reported like broken studs or studs coming out with the nuts attached with the exception of the port rear corner stud. I used two Ikea butter knives as wedges (because I didn't have anything better) tapped gently between the head and the block on the starboard side as to not hit the valve heads. I found the combination of gentle tapping on the side of the head with a 3 pound sledge hammer while wiggling/pulling up by hand got the head off without much fuss. I followed that up with copious amounts of scraping doubled-up graphite head gasket material with a flat blade and 2.5 gallon Craftsman shop vacuum. (Love that thing!)
Attachment 13370

Attachment 13283

After I got the head off I inspected everything and discovered the "phantom cooling passages" that lined up with the block but didn't seem to exist in the head. Of course those "holes" aren't present in late model heads as described in this thread (insert thread here once I find it)

Attachment 13371


Once I got all of the head gasket material removed I noticed the face of the engine block mostly in the vicinity of the #4 cylinder and valves had some "dimpling." I was concerned about it enough to pose the question to the braintrust in this thread:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/foru...light=dimpling

Attachment 13372
(P.S. I'd like to point out that while the braintrust is adept at combing over posted pictures with their magnifying glass to point out every possible lurking abnormality, when I first posted this picture over 2 years ago, nobody spotted the fact that the pistons in my engine were installed backwards with the arrow stamped "front" on the top of the pistons facing forwards instead of counterintuitively towards the back of the engine as they should. For shame fellas! :D Haha! Actually it's darn near impossible to see with the reflection of the residual Marvel Mystery Oil sheen on the pistons.)

I still didn't know what I was really looking for, but it seemed like all of the valves were installed and accounted for. However when I cranked the engine using my remote starter switch, I noticed that many of the valves weren't moving up or down. (I think I have a video of that and I'll update this post when I find it.) So with that discovery, I dove back into reading my new favorite forum and came to the conclusion that my engine had the common "stuck valve illness" and I'd need to remove the valve gallery side plate for a look-see. If I was going to do that, why not remove the manifold and carburetor too? Down the rabbit hole we go. Next order of business:

Off with the manifold!
Attachment 13373

What I learned

• The "phantom holes" in the head aren't actual cooling passages on late-model heads
• Buy head gaskets from Ken in bulk. You'll inevitably use them.

What I'd do differently

• Buy more head gaskets

Whoever worked on your engine didn't follow their MMI manual very well.

That’s the truth Neil. I highly doubt they even owned a Moyer Manual otherwise they were illiterate, neglectful, or both. It gets worse.

Hi again fellers. I'm back. Sorry I've been busy changing poopy diapers and bottle feeding at 2am for the past two months (the kid not me). :p Anyway, back to the story. The intake/exhaust manifold came off without much drama however in doing so, I got yet another lesson in stuck/frozen/rusted fasteners on raw-water cooled A-4's. The three manifold studs were in drastically different conditions. Tapping on two of them with a screwdriver handle, I got a distinct high pitched "tink tink tink" of a well seated fastener. On the front stud however, I discovered the threads in the block had been repaired with a helicoil and the stud made more of a "tank tank tank" noise. Still holding, but requiring the "kid glove treatment" from here on out.
Attachment 13374

I loosened the two bolts securing the valve gallery side plate (replaced later with the MMI stud kit) and set it aside. A further inspection of the valve stems and springs revealed what I already knew from the top side; the valve springs had rusted in place preventing the valves from moving up and down.

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Ring ring ring. "Uh, Hi Ken. Yep its Jonathan. Yep again. Remember those valve springs you said I'd need but I didn't order them?....Yep I need those."

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The process of removing the valves is well documented in multiple threads here so I won't reinvent the wheel. If you're new to this part of the A-4 and binge reading through my ridiculous narrative, here's the Clif Notes: Don't let the small valve keepers fall down into the oil pan from the dime-sized weep holes in the bottom of the valve gallery. Those go into the deep dark place where there be dragons and crankshaft bearings 'n stuff.

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I brought the valves home and "cleaned them up" on my brass wire wheel. Was this smart?...:confused: I don't know I guess. As I mentioned earlier, this was (is) as deep into an engine rebuild as I've ever gone. Since then I've learned much more about the importance of valve seat angle, cut, width, valve/valve guide matching etc (thanks Pete's Garage channel on YouTube!)

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What I learned

• Sticky valve springs make the A-4 not run so well

What I'd do differently

• Have a machine shop take a look at the valves before going taking them to a grinding wheel I suppose. Maybe not that big of a deal?

I don't like that pitting in the lip of the valve in #2 pic. If I was this far in, I might replace the valves too, but that is another $200 if you buy a set..maybe only need a couple if you are lucky? :confused: I also don't know the exact part of these valves that are the mating area with the valve seat..maybe the lip is exposed to the combustion chamber and the flat edge above it is the mating surface? The mating surface should be ground to a shine (and the proper angle) with valve lapping compound before re-install . You can see the thin shiny ring before cleaning was where the valve hit the valve guide..I think this is supposed to be the entire flat area of mating surface if the valve is ground to the correct angle.

Shawn, if you look at the last picture you will see the valve's mating surface, which is the larger beveled face toward the the top of the valve facing down toward the stem. That's the main area of valve/block interface for sealing the combustion chamber. As long as there isn't a hole through the other faces or signs of significant weakening, more than often corrosion isn't a major problem.

I'm old school enough to still own a set of lapping tools (suction cups on sticks, really) that I use to finish honing the valve and seat once any major grinding is done or to just clean up the surfaces when removing carbon and gunk. Just a little dab of grinding compound and a few hours of patience and your rewarded with a beautiful seal between the surfaces. It's mind numbing work, sort of like trying to rub a stick into a pile of wet tinder to start a fire, buy I love the results. :cool:

I should’ve elaborated a little bit more on the previous post about the valve removal but I didn’t want to get out of sequence with the timeline given that the thread up to this point has been all “past tense.”

Although the original reason for the valve removal/valve spring replacement at this point was troubleshooting the crank/no-start condition of the engine, I subsequently replaced the springs, and reinstalled the “cleaned up” valves using the valve lapping tool Ram describes (a suction cup on a stick) and some Permatex valve lapping compound. After hand-lapping the valves they seemed to have a good mating surface with the block. I set the valve lash with a feeler gauge as described in the MMI service manual a.k.a ‘The Bible’

After *(spoiler alert)* getting the engine running again months after this point, the cabin would fill with exhaust fumes any time I ran the engine. I read all of the threads about the Indigo PCV kit “fix” for that problem (the pros and cons of the kit are both well debated here) and decided it was worth a shot. I installed it and it eliminated all of the fumes. However, those who argue the PCV kit only “masks the symptoms” of the fumes rather than “curing the illness” of excessively worn valve guides or compression rings, seem to be accurate in my case. Now that I’m in the middle of the full tear-down, I measured my valve stems with a micrometer and they’re definitely worn. Because of the small diameter of the valve guides, I don’t see any way of measuring those to compare clearances but I can infer. At present I’m down to a bare block so I’ll probably be replacing all of the valves and guides with new.

Talk to you soon Ken.....

I left off in the story having just removed the valves to replace the springs and in so doing, removed the intake/exhaust manifold for better access to the valve gallery side plate. At this point in the process I had sufficiently lurked around this forum and read about the common overheating issues originating from clogged up water jackets and manifolds. I have to admit, I was incredibly jealous of my fellow A-4ians who's engines were running enough to have overheating problems. I figured what the heck, lets get ahead of this thing and if a 24 hour vinegar flush does-an-engine-good, what's wrong with a one week-to-a-month vinegar flush? So I picked up a big tupperware tub, bought a few gallons of vinegar, and dropped the manifold in. I figured it would come out looking hot-tanked clean. It didn't, but it definitely emulsified some of the buildup and made for a satisfying black goo:

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A couple weeks-ish later:
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Post vinegar bath and wire brushing:
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Remember in the beginning when I said I live in Denver but the boat is in San Francisco? Well that meant my tools and workspace were 997 miles away. Thus began the weekly checked-bag shipment of engine parts back and forth. First to make the journey was the freshly cleaned manifold for further cleaning, painting, and bake-curing of engine paint:

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In hindsight it probably wasn't the most prudent to use our kitchen oven to bake on high-temperature engine paint but I have a very patient wife sooooo....."Hey honey look at our shiny red manifold. I just saved us like $400!" :D For those curious I used VHT (I think Duplicolor makes it) red paint on the manifold and head. When I *spoiler alert* eventually got the engine running, the paint held up pretty well except in the aft bottom corner of the manifold by the exhaust flange which I suspect gets the hottest.

Alright...running! :cool:

Nice! Been following this thread to learn a few things...Will be doing the same thing you're doing for the most part this coming Winter on an extra Craigslist engine I picked up...

The first (and last!) time I baked a freshly painted engine manifold in the kitchen oven, it filled the kitchen with toxic purple fumes. The wife was not amused.

Edward, I now use the gas BBQ for the same reason.;)

Dave Neptune :cool:

While the manifold was soaking in vinegar, I decided to preemptively start playing whack-a-mole with the common A-4 afflictions. Next on the list was the fuel system. Since the boat sat for "two-ish years" :rolleyes: before we purchased it, I knew the gas had undoubtably gone bad. I didn't realize how bad. I bought a cheap-o Harbor Freight hand operated fluid transfer pump and started pumping the gas out of the tank. I found a significant amount of water in the tank. How much was the result of condensation inside the tank vs rainwater seeping past the dried out nitrile o-ring on the deck fill cap is up for debate. Either way, it was a bunch:

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I figured since the gas tank was now empty I might as well pull it out, clean it up, and take a look at what's underneath. When was the last time that was done? I'm sure the answer to that question was "never." When I pulled the tank out, the bottom was in pretty rough shape. No pinhole leaks but my plans to polish it to a mirrored finish instantly evaporated.

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I took a look in the tank with my LED flashlight and saw a bit of sediment in the bottom of the tank. I was able to stick my iPhone far enough down the fuel gauge hole to get a picture:

Varnished gas? Dirt? Bigfoot turds?
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Before I describe what I did next, I want to make absolutely clear that by the time I got around to doing this, the tank had been empty for weeks and there was no gasoline smell present at all. Even then I understood there was a risk of blowing myself up and getting launched over the Golden Gate Bridge, but I decided to try to suck out the sediment with my mini shop vac. It was tough because the little 6" crevice tool wouldn't get to the corner where the gunk was trapped and kept falling off the hose into the tank where I'd have to fish it out with an old coat hanger. I think I got 90% out of there and the new Racor filter would take care of the rest (the engine previously had no fuel filtration at all, not even between the electric fuel pump and the carb)

Since there was no way the aluminum tank was going to polish up shiny, I decided to get it powder coated. I found a pretty reasonable powder coating shop in South San Francisco (PM me for the contact info) who did the tank for $100. I read quite a bit on the pros and cons of powder coating aluminum and decided for this application, it was the right solution for me. Since the bottom of the tank had a fair amount of corrosion from (I assume) sitting on the plywood base that Catalina used for a fuel tank platform in 1979, I decided to cut up and install some rubber shower pan liner under the tank as a poor-man's vapor barrier. Probably just placebo but it looked nice:

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Since no fuel system overhaul would be complete without a carburetor rebuild, I downloaded Don's carburetor video, ordered the parts kit from Ken, and cracked open that intricate hunk of metal known as the Zenith late model 68. I found the evidence of my earlier attempts to "unfreeze" the motor with MMO down the spark plug holes. Plenty of it made it past the intake valves and down the manifold into the carb where it had mixed with the varnished gas.

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I was able to confidently clean out the tiny jet passages with a small piece of safety wire but the varnish residue left in the bowl was tenacious!
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As an aside, after seeing the manifold clean up so nicely with a vinegar bath I decided to soak everything in vinegar including the carburetor. Well, apparently vinegar strips the shiny gold zinc off small galvanized parts. So much for my new-looking carburetor linkage :( Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

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What I learned

• I'm not that bright

What I'd do differently

• Not soak small galvanized parts in vinegar for a week