water/oil pouring our oil fill hole

[Mdoll]

I just bought a 1969 38' Hughes sailboat with an A4. The motor was junk so I found a brand new A4 in the shipping crate and installed it (drop in).

I did put the old water pump on it as it had a larger impeller and thicker castings (I am heading for salt down the St Lawrence).

The motor is in the keel below the water line. The exhaust is a long copper pipe with approx 10 deg down angle from the engine followed by a drop with a trap and then the rubber hose goes up to the stern (3' lift) before exiting.

Engine ran great at idle and revving it dockside for a few starts without issue. When I engaged the drive to move it over to step my mast, started blowing white steam (I have read everything on here) which got heavy and then water stopped flowing out the exhaust altogether. I shut off the motor (which was purring like a kitten) and opened the hatches. The bilge was full to the oil pan with milky water and the engine had about 10 litres of water/oil sludge in it. All the plugs were clean and wet with water.

What I have done:

Pressure tested the cooling system engine and manifold. Holds 20 psi

Changed the water pump back to the new one

The boat has a hot water heater run off the exhaust. I added a shutoff valve and shut off the water flow to the heater (just didn't want more complications and I don't fully understand what is inside the exhaust so took it out of the loop)

I am confused because the engine never stalled, it ran fine. It would have pumped itself to the bottom happily running all the way. After i cleaned up the mess it started for a second and then died. Won't start again. I am assuming that the float bowl is full of water.

Any ideas on where all this water came from when the water jacket is fine?

Thanks,
Michelle

[Mdoll]

picture of exhaust

Not the greatest but you see the long copper pipe then it does an S bend just after the water hose attaches

[Dave Neptune]

Woah tuff luck!

Michelle, first welcome to the MMI Forum.

Did you pressure check the manifold?

Water can get in through the exhaust when not running if not vented properly.

Is the water pouring in when running? If so I'd do another check of the block.

Get the water out ASAP and do not let it sit. Turn the water off AND get some oil into the cylinders. Give it a spin on the sterter once in a while to keep the engine from seizing!!!

Perhaps a pic or better description of WHEN it is happening. IE when running and/or stopped.

Dave Neptune

[sastanley]

Uh oh...what other information can we get about this "new" motor? Did you buy it from MMI?

I have no idea how a running motor can get water in the crankcase unless there is a breach between the water jacket and the crankcase somewhere inside the motor!

[lat 64]

Hard to tell but I think you have a dry, water-jacketed exhaust like mine. It could be rusted through inside and water is flowing back into the engine. Can you isolate it and pressure test it?

Can you identify the copper pipes in the photo?
I labeled them. I think (A) is the exhaust?

Just FYI, I believe your fuel filter is not approved for inboards. It has a clear plastic bowl that won't withstand a fire test.

Russ

[Mdoll]

Thanks for the welcome

The new motor came from a guy who scraped his sailboat project. It has zero hours on it supposedly. It runs nice but who knows the guy I bought the boat from told me the motor was good too.

I ran it for a few hours total before this problem occurred.

I tested the manifold and the engine at the same time from the input on the block (guage side) to the water output on the manifold (pump).

I am totally confused how this water got in here, when the block passed. Hence me reaching out to the expertise here.

Also now I cannot get it to start I had to pull the distributor to pressure test it.... pulled it straight out and back in and really hoping I don't have to start from scratch setting the timing. I am 8 hours from my garage and my full tool box.

Thanks for your insight!

Michelle

[Mdoll]

Hard to tell but I think you have a dry, water-jacketed exhaust like mine. It could be rusted through inside and water is flowing back into the engine. Can you isolate it and pressure test it?

Can you identify the copper pipes in the photo?
I labeled them. I think (A) is the exhaust?

Just FYI, I believe your fuel filter is not approved for inboards. It has a clear plastic bowl that won't withstand a fire test.

Russ

A is exhaust (straight pipe out of manifold)
B is exhaust and water after it drops turns towards the motor and then loops back to stern.

I don't think I have anything here that I can pressure test the exhaust. It is all copper and fairly new.

[Mdoll]

Michelle, first welcome to the MMI Forum.

Did you pressure check the manifold?

Water can get in through the exhaust when not running if not vented properly.

Is the water pouring in when running? If so I'd do another check of the block.

Get the water out ASAP and do not let it sit. Turn the water off AND get some oil into the cylinders. Give it a spin on the sterter once in a while to keep the engine from seizing!!!

Perhaps a pic or better description of WHEN it is happening. IE when running and/or stopped.

Dave Neptune

Thanks Dave,

The water is out, new oil is in and I have been trying to start it all day. Cylinders are dry as it did start for a second shortly after it happened.

Boat was idling on the dock for half an hour or so. I closed the covers threw the lines and turned the boat around. Noticed smoke and pulled back into the dock. Water was coming out still so I let it idle another couple of minutes until water stopped all together when I shut it off. Opened the hatch and the bilge was full as was the engine with water.

[hanleyclifford]

When you eliminated the heater loop you may have imposed an additional pressure burden on that jacketed exhaust system which should be your first suspect. Try running a short time with the water discharge cobbled to an overboard hose.Be careful not run more than a minute like this. Of course do not open the raw water intake until the engine is running.

[Dave Neptune]

Double check

Michelle, I think I would do another pressure check of the block! If it was repaired with an "epoxy" or "bondo" type patch it could of let go!!! Worth the double check. I doubt you could get that much through the manifold as the liquid would have to "flow" past the rings or valve guides to get into the block.

A "bondo" patch never works however "epoxy" patches can work for a very long time when done properly. I even see so called rebuilds that ran on the "skid" for a positive test fail hours later once installed from poor patches. Some do the patch just to get it sold~no scruples.

For water to do anything but drip it would have to be the block.

Dave Neptune

[Mdoll]

Thanks for your ideas everyone!

I am double checking the block now then I will continue to attempt to restart it again. I will roll it over this time while pressurize to make sure.

I am on the clock, paying by the day to sit here dead Fortunately I have wifi at the dock.

Michelle

[edwardc]

Michelle,

Water issues aside, since you removed the distributor, it's possible that it went back in with the shaft in a different position, messing up your timing and keeping it from starting.

Pull just the distributor cap and insure that the rotor is pointing at #1 when the flywheel timing mark indicates you are at TDC _AND_ you have confirmed that it is TDC for the COMPRESSION stroke on #1, not the exhaust stroke.

[ndutton]

I agree with Ed, once the distributor was removed the timing was lost unless alignment marks were made before removal. Having not read that they were (as described in this post), you're in for a start from scratch timing exercise. It's not that hard, just be careful and no assumptions or guessing. There's no point in trying to start the engine until this is done.

I also agree with Dave, no harm in double or triple checking the cooling system, same as you did before. While you're at it the water jacketed exhaust pipe can be pressure tested the exact same way via the water in and water out ports.

edit:
Is this a late or early model engine? Big difference in oil fill locations and heights.

[67c&ccorv]

At first your motor was;

"a brand new A4 in the shipping crate and installed it (drop in)".

Then it was;

"the new motor came from a guy who scraped his sailboat project. It has zero hours on it supposedly. It runs nice but who knows the guy I bought the boat from told me the motor was good too."

And now you are wondering why you have problems?

Sorry mate...you are in irons at the moment.

[romantic comedy]

Michelle, one idea is to hook up a fresh water pressure hose to the engine cooling system. Just hook it after the pump. You might find out something.

It is hard to get cooling water into the crank case. Did the bilge water get as high as the crank shaft? There is no seal at the flywheel.

The water pump could leak into the crank case, but that is very unlikely. There is a weep hole between the impeller and the crank case.

You could also use that hose to pressure test the water side of the exhaust.