New (to me) Atomic 4 Fuel / Carburetor Issue

[T.Faste]

Hi All,

Finally got my new (to me) Alberg 35 Sailboat with an Atomic 4 (late model 4 cylinder) sailing this summer. It motored great for about 7 hours total with no issues. Now it has started to splutter and lose power when in gear, but idle seems more or less normal.

Here's my basic issue: I can follow all the instructions in the Moyer Marine A4 handbook, but I'm such a novice to this type of thing I need some training wheels to get started and be safe.

How should I best clean the carburetor and fuel pump?
remove them from the engine? Keep them in place and remove the appropriate sediment bowls, main passage plugs etc? If I remove them from the engine, how best can I insure safety? Catch basin for gas? If so, how much gas will come out? Any other basic tips would be most helpful.

(Maybe there is already some basic help out there I could just tap into, but I couldn't find much so far.)

Thanks,

T.Faste

Some background:

I'm not a mechanic in terms of my knowledge, but I am pretty handy. Right now I'm in the boat anchored out on Whidbe Island, WA, far from home wondering what best to do.

The boat has a new curburetor (with the numbers 286T48 on the side square on top instead of diamond and blank spot where sometimes I have seen a name logo), and mechanical fuel pump that was recently rebuilt.

[CajunSpike]

I'm surprised the regulars haven't chimed in yet.

But if I were in your boat, the first thing I'd try is to pull the fuel line going into the carb and drop it into a cup/glass/bucket.

Disconnect the center coil wire so the motor does not start.

Turn on the key, crank engine over for a little bit(not applicable if electric fuel pump), and let the cup/glass/bucket catch some of your gas.

Put it back together.

Inspect the fuel you captured. Is it dirty? Full of water? Full of trash?
How much gas was in your tank when the problem started?

Easy enough to do without any $ spent.

fyi, I got my A4 boat in December 2017, so learned a lot since then but FAR from pro.

[Al Schober]

Definately remove the carb for work. Stuff some rags under it to catch drips, then toss the rags out in the cockpit to air out.
Problem with working on a boat away from 'home' is lack of material and tools - likely no carb cleaner or air compressor!
Some wag defined cruising as getting to fix your boat in exotic locations.

[JOHN COOKSON]

When the engine starts to sputter and loose power try closing the choke a bit. If the performance changes for the better it is an indication you have a fuel system problem.
The way to tell if fuel problems are with the engine's part of the fuel system (fuel pump, carburetor) or the boats part of the fuel system (everything before the fuel pump) is to run off an auxiliary tank connected directly to the fuel pump.
Welcome to the forum.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: If the fuel system checks out OK the distributor the distributor advance may be sticky and not advancing.
Did the problem start after a maintenance\ improvement procedure? Did the problem start after you bought a load of fuel?

[Mo]

You said it ran great for 7 hours. Wondering if your fuel is getting low. It's best to try and source non ethanol fuel as well. There is the possibility of pin holes in your pickup tube in the fuel tank. It happens occasionally with these older boats and if the boat is new to you there might be a few of these learning curves to get around.

You could try adding 5 gallons of gas and see if it improves. I realize you are not at your home port so that might be something simple you could try. If the problem goes away you would have to think seriously of holes corroded into your pick-up tube within the tank...this would make it starve for fuel.

I can think of a number of things that would cause what you describe but keeping it simple right now to see if we can get you underway and not overwhelm you with things you can't do much about where you are.

[T.Faste]

Thanks Everyone! My internet is limited, but I have been able to read your advice off and on.

After a day of tinkering I have seen some debris and oil in the fuel line. I emptied and cleaned the sediment bowl, replaced the screw on filter, removed and cleaned the zenith carburetor (my float valve did NOT have a small wire clipping it to the float - have seen this on some zenith carburetors on youtube, is the lack of this is a problem???).

After all that the engine sounds good in idle and strong in reverse, but stalls when I put it in forward. It also seems to stall when I get too much choke.

Just filled up the tank with about seven gallons of gas a day before things started going strange, so hopefully I didn't get a bad batch of gas!!! It's pretty tricky to find ethanal free around here. I hadn't done anything to the engine prior to the problem.

Tomorrow I'll see if the fuel tank vent line is clogged, look at the timing (thought I don't know much about that), look for stuff wrapped on the prop, maybe try the compression, OR...???

Thanks again!

-Trygve

t.faste

[JOHN COOKSON]

After a day of tinkering I have seen some debris and oil in the fuel line. I emptied and cleaned the sediment bowl, replaced the screw on filter, removed and cleaned the zenith carburetor (my float valve did NOT have a small wire clipping it to the float - have seen this on some zenith carburetors on youtube, is the lack of this is a problem???).
t.faste

IMO your first priority should be to get clean fuel to the carburetor. Serial cleaning of the carburetor will not help a dirty gas problem. Also don't adjust the timing or make any changes (such as adding an electronic ignition) until you get the engine running correctly.
The carburetor will work fine without the clip on the float needle valve.

TRUE GRIT

[Bratina]

IMO your first priority should be to get clean fuel to the carburetor. Serial cleaning of the carburetor will not help a dirty gas problem. Also don't adjust the timing or make any changes (such as adding an electronic ignition) until you get the engine running correctly.
The carburetor will work fine without the clip on the float needle valve.

TRUE GRIT

+10

I chased a stalling / lack of power issue for almost six months - got pretty amazing at cleaning the carb and learned a lot about spark plugs, but ultimately I had water in my fuel, and a 1-minute drain into a glass would have saved me a fair bit of time and frustration.

If you can, clean the carb (it's suspect if you've run it from your potentially dirty gas) and connect an auxiliary fuel tank. We can't overlook that the only thing which changed was adding new gas ahead of the running issues.

[ndutton]

Generally speaking it's interesting how (dare I say) most problems discussed on this forum are caused by systems outside of the engine. Contaminated fuel, poor electrical, deteriorating control cables, clogged exhaust water injection, collapsed exhaust hose, clogged raw water intake, we see it every day.

The case here appears to be a fuel contamination issue and all the carburetor cleaning in the world won't solve it. You could fit a brand new carb fresh out of the box, give it rancid fuel and you're right back where you started. You could install a brand new Moyer engine, feed it bad fuel and get the same result the first trip out.

[Tommy jones]

In a similar boat

I have a new to me 71 Morgan 35 with an A4. She started right up after sitting for two years and then died after a few seconds. I cleaned the tank out (lots of water and debris in there), drained the bowl and connected my 3 gallon tester tank. I also put the ignition tuneup kit on for good measure. She started right up and purred. I am going to do the impeller and when she goes in the water I am hopeful she will run reliably :fingerscrossed:

[tenders]

You've then got to figure out how the water got in there. If your fuel fill cap is missing the O-ring, which is an easy thing to overlook, it's eventually going to get water in there again and you'll find out about it at the worst possible time.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Voodoo And Hopeful Thinking Won't Work

I am hopeful she will run reliably :fingerscrossed:

+1 on what Tenders posted.
I recently read in another thread where someone (in jest) recommended sacrificing a live chicken and sprinkling the blood around the boat. I also recommend for good measure that you make an offering beer and fruit to the gods and do a little dance.
At any rate welcome to the forum.

TRUE GRIT

[Mo]

Been helping a forum member the past couple of days with a fuel issue....still wont idle so he is burning off all the fuel in the tank and we will top up with non ethanol fuel with stabilizer. Carb has been apart, cleaned, replaced a gasket, jets removed, blown out with compressed air, filters changed. Fuel had a poor color though. Carb cleaning and replacing a gasket fixed most of the issue but once the shitty looking fuel is burned off I will tune in that carb...not much we can do with it until it's (fuel) is burned off. The boat has been tied to the dock all day running at 2000 rpm.

A major problem is we don't treat the fuel prior to adding it to the boat. I put stabil in the gas cans prior to the fuel ever reaching the boat. It is too easy to have a time lapse and be adding good fuel to bad fuel especially if the boat isn't used much. FYI ...any fuel you buy for your garage, a boat, lawnmowers, snow throwers, whipper snippers etc...add stabil to the fuel prior to pouring it from the jerry can. I put my stabil in my gas cans at the pump.

[T.Faste]

Running Well!

Hi Everyone,

Thanks again for all the very helpful comments.

Since the motor is all new to me, I have had a steep learning curve, but also rewarding. The motor is finally running well. I think that water may have seeped into the gas fill cap in the cockpit floor at some point prior to my owning the boat as I have noticed that if the drains get clogged you get a situation with standing water over the gas cap! (Not a great design, but not much I can do about that at the moment other than keep the drains unclogged and replace the o-ring on the cap).

I have found a non ethanol gas station, rigged a jerry can with a hose so I can directly hook it up to the fuel pump if needed. Cleaning the carburetor seemed to help, but maybe was just piece of mind knowing it was clean.

The engine seems to start and run just fine now. I had a low power problem as I put it in gear, but now that I'm getting used to the engine I think it is just the clutch slipping occasionally if the RPM's go up too fast when it is warming up. I haven't gotten into trying to adjust that yet, as it has been pretty minor.

So now I can at least get around. Unfortunately, I have discovered a pretty bad exhaust leak now coming from where the manifold attaches to the double walled copper exhaust pipe. Sigh.

I'll go look at other threads on fixing that!

-Trygve

[sastanley]

T faste. That cockpit fuel fill will be a problem. First thing..fix the water intrusion..(i.e. new o-ring), my problem was a cross threaded cap..the o-ring never seated, so I got a new fitting (mine was up on the side deck near the deck scuppers.)

To remove the bad gas, you can get one of those $8 orange plastic transfer pumps from Wal-Mart. Get a length of PVC pipe that is small enough OD (maybe 1.25"??) to go in the fuel fill hose, long enough to reach the bottom of the tank from the cockpit, and large enough ID (maybe 1"??) to allow the kinky, junk fuel transfer hose to go straight thru to the bottom of the tank. (hopefully it is a straight shot down, otherwise why put it in the cockpit floor. )
Pump that crap out into jerry cans and get some fresh fuel in there after you fix the o-ring problem. If you don't have a straight shot, but you have access to the top of the tank, you can do what I did and that was remove the sending unit, and I duct taped a piece of stick to my crappy orange hose and stuck it in the sending unit hole. The duct tape held just long enough to pump out 15 gallons of water/fuel mix before the adhesive disintegrated.

Sorry about the exhaust problem..it is a boat.