There was a reference to "lubing the advance" - how & where

[JimF]

Hi,

I thought I finally knew pretty much everything needed to maintain the lump of rusty iron (A4) in my boat but in another thread about EI ( I do have EI) I saw a reference to still needing to lube the advance weights or they rust. What is the procedure for that, does the distrubutor need to e removed to do it? Where are the advance weights? How often does it need to be done?

Thanks in advance

Jim

[ndutton]

The distributor can stay in the engine which is preferred to conserve the timing. Remove the distributor cap, remove the rotor, remove the magnetic EI collar, remove the round flat plate that holds the EI module. You'll find the centrifugal advance weights underneath the flat plate with small springs on them. Make sure they move freely by hand and lubricate.

How often? It varies from boat to boat, climate to climate but the more often, the better. I'd guess annually would be a place to start. Next year if they're still moving well, still rust free and oily you can extend the interval. Over time you'll establish the proper interval for your conditions.

[JimF]

further question - what to lube advance weights with

I have sili Kroil, or regular kroil, 3 in 1 oil, or should it be some kind of grease?

[thatch]

A quick check on the operation of the advance weights and springs can be made by removing the distributor cap and then by rotating the rotor "clockwise". If things are freed-up, the rotor will move and then return to it's original position when released. This movement will be about 17 degrees, or about 1/2 hour on a clock face.
Tom

[JOHN COOKSON]

Any light machine oil works fine. I use 3in1 oil on the fly weights. The weights need to move freely so grease on them will not result in optimal operation.
You can check their operation for free movment if you have a feel for it. It is possible to sort of brut strength the rotor and have the rotor pop back to no advance and think everything is OK.
In my pre forum days I would check the advance operation yearly by twisting the rotor. Everything seemed to be OK for years. One year I took the breaker plate off. What a mess. One spring was gone due to rust. There was rust between the weights and the distributor. After I got new springs and cleaned up the rust the engine ran much much better. It was like a major tune up.

TRUE GRIT

[thatch]

John is completely correct in stating that bad things could be going on under the breaker plate, despite being able to move the rotor. This test is meant to determine if the distributor is frozen or not. I have a feeling that there are many A4 distributors out there that are basically "not advancing" and whose owners have "power tuned" their engines and assummed that all was well. A well tuned A4 will idle smoothly and put out good power through the entire RPM range, much like a sewing machine.
Tom

[roadnsky]

A quick check on the operation of the advance weights and springs can be made by removing the distributor cap and then by rotating the rotor "clockwise". If things are freed-up, the rotor will move and then return to it's original position when released. This movement will be about 17 degrees, or about 1/2 hour on a clock face.
Tom

Pic of what Tom is talking about...

[thatch]

Although Jerry's excellent photos show the innards of a distributor that is considerably different from a Delco or a Prestolite, the principals still apply.
Okay Jerry, I'll bite, what brand of dist is it, a Pertronix?
Tom

[roadnsky]

BINGO!

Although Jerry's excellent photos show the innards of a distributor that is considerably different from a Delco or a Prestolite, the principals still apply.
Okay Jerry, I'll bite, what brand of dist is it, a Pertronix?

Yep. Pertronix.
Sorry didn't realize we were discussing the Delco or Prestolite.
But yeah, same principle...

[sastanley]

Delco Dizzy

Oh good..a topical thread for me.

This winter I lubed up the weights with MMO and put on new springs. Everything seemed to be operating as expected.

But now, I think my Delco dizzy shaft is getting stuck "advanced". The engine starts running like crap after about 30-40 minutes and I pulled the cap & plate to find a weight stuck out extended, and I can't rotate the rotor the 17° clockwise being discussed here..like it is already in that position. I thought I'd freed it up by adding a little oil under the felt thingie, but a subsequent test run the next day revealed the same problem 30 minutes later.

I think I understand the basic concept, and I assume there are two shafts at work here..one spins inside the other up to 17°. An education would be appreciated.

Is the lubing of the weights and the lubing of the shaft itself two separate things, as I think it is? What are some tips to get the two shafts to stop freezing up on each other?

Help..the engine is almost unusable in this state.

[Administrator]

New springs....

Another "It can't be..."?

Bill

[sastanley]

Bill, I know..but if you area alluding to the old thing we've been 'round and 'round about, I do not think it is the coil, & the springs were MMI issue earlier this spring.

It does not quit, but last evening I was literally sitting there with my hand on the distributor adjusting the timing on the fly as the engine missed and surged and carried on to keep it running while Laura was at the helm. I could generally keep it running at a high idle (1,500 RPM) while coasting out of gear to slow down for slip entry. Sometimes it would occasionally stall at lower RPM, but fired right back up..and, once I 'politely' force the rotor/shaft/weights back to their normal positions, she'll idle just fine. But, when I throttled up enough to swing those weights out (and I don't know exactly where that point is), that's when I seem to get into trouble. I also wonder if it is heat related..when the parts are cold they seem to be free, but when they get hot and expand, maybe they are getting stuck.

I am pretty sure the advance mechanism is the issue, and that is what I am focusing on. The same buddy that used to own/ride Harley's and helped me free the weights up on the sea wall in Cambridge a couple years ago, came down and drank all my beer.....I mean helped me with it this weekend and he agrees with my theory. We thought we'd fixed it with the lubing exercise in post #10.

My step-dad is pretty smart on this stuff too, he's offered to come by and poke his nose in it..but it is like eleventy-billion degrees this week.

edit - so, while sitting in my office and I am not staring at this thing, I guess my question is what is the relationship between the weights and shaft(s) and springs..can someone explain how they all work in more detail, so I know what I am trying to 'free up'?

[thatch]

Hi Shawn, You are correct in assumming that there are inner and outer parts that are rotating against each other. The inner shaft goes from the gear at the bottom of the dist to the top where the rotor sits. The other is a plate that holds the cage containing the weights and springs. At the point where these parts rub together it is assummed that there will be enough engine oil working it's way up to that area to keep things rotating. First I would try, after removing the rotor, magnetic ring and the EI mounting plate, dripping some light weight (3 in one) oil along the center shaft which should work it's way to the friction point. If this does not do the trick, then the next step would be to remove the entire unit for a proper "bench" cleaning and lubing. Before removing my distributors, I rotate the engine so that the rotor is pointing at a "known" point and then I put marks at on the base of the dist and on the block so that I can put things back in their original positions.
Tom

[sastanley]

Tom, thanks for the explanation.

I think the plan will be to take the whole thing off the motor and work on it in the air conditioned garage. Thanks for the tip too, I always hand crank it to TDC before removing the distributor.

I'll report back...the biggest issue will be getting enough time to run it for 30-45 minutes again.

[thatch]

Since you're going to pull the entire unit, I'd go the rest of the way and remove the drive gear and the center shaft. It'll be interesting seeing what you find.
Tom