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team118
04-11-2009, 10:44 PM
Hello;

I have a Catalina 30 that I am in the process of rewiring.

One of the projects is to move the engine gauge panel from the lower cockpit up higher and upgrade the gauges.

I bought oil pressure, water temp and ammeter from Moyer. I found a Telex fuel gauge that is close the Stewart Warner gauges. I am rounding it out with a remote Panasonic Faceplate for the stereo.

Below is a schematic of the new panel

http://i41.tinypic.com/15coz8n.png

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the blower switch set up and the ignition to the ammeter. I believe my schematic is wrong for the blower, I know now that the terminal for light on the switch is actually a terminal for grounding the light in the blower switch. I took pictures of the old engine gauge panel and I am confused about the blower switch as it connects to the ignition.

The old setup had one wire from the blower running to the blower switch. The other terminal received a wire from the battery post of the ignition switch, this wire was also fused. Where does the other wire from the blower go?




Second, the old ammeter gauge was setup up like the other gauges. There were posts for Ignition (I), Ground (G) and Sending Unit (S). The new ammeter gauge has ACC (-) and Batt (+) and a center ground.

The old ammeter sent a Orange wire from the (S) to the Output Terminal on the Alternator and to the Batt post on the Ignition Switch. It sent a Red wire from (I) to the (+) of the Battery Terminal on the Starter and a Black wire to the ground.

The manual shows the Red wire going to the Postive side of the Ammeter AND the the Battery post of the Ingition and the Orange wire going to the Negative side of the Ammeter. This seems opposite of what my panel actually did.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2iudleb.gif

This is the old panel

http://i39.tinypic.com/250o1s7.jpg

Any help for me?

Thanks in advance
Chris

Baltimore Sailor
04-12-2009, 06:15 PM
If your blower switch has a light on the switch to let you know when the blower is on, then the "light" and "neg" posts on the switch are for the light. The "light" post gets a 12v positive lead from wherever you want and the "neg" goes to ground. There should also be a "load" and "power" post on the switch. The positive lead from the blower goes to the "load" post and a 12v lead from the BATT post on the ignition key will go to the "power" post. The "other wire" from the blower is the negative lead, and goes to wherever you have everything else grounded.

I've just completed the same project on my 1975 Capital Yachts Newport 28, so I'm a couple of weeks ahead of you on this one. :D I ran the 12v positive to the "light" post off the steaming light post on my fuse panel. I figured if it's dark enough to have the steaming light on I'd probably want my engine gauges illuminated as well.

I can't help you with the ammeter setup, as I don't have one. Just a voltmeter, which I connect to the BATT post on the ignition key, and ground on my ground bus.

Good luck!

rigspelt
04-13-2009, 06:27 AM
Second, the old ammeter gauge was setup up like the other gauges. There were posts for Ignition (I), Ground (G) and Sending Unit (S). The new ammeter gauge has ACC (-) and Batt (+) and a center ground. The old ammeter sent a Orange wire from the (S) to the Output Terminal on the Alternator and to the Batt post on the Ignition Switch. It sent a Red wire from (I) to the (+) of the Battery Terminal on the Starter and a Black wire to the ground. The manual shows the Red wire going to the Postive side of the Ammeter AND the the Battery post of the Ingition and the Orange wire going to the Negative side of the Ammeter. This seems opposite of what my panel actually did.
Just an amateur here, but with respect to the ammeter wiring, I think your schematic looks OK. When the engine is off, the red + terminal on the ammeter will be hot, as will the BATT terminal on the ignition key, and since no current is flowing the ammeter will show zero amps. When the ignition key is turned to Run, the purple wires will be hot. When the ignition key is turned against its spring to Start, the white wire to the solenoid will be hot too, and the engine will crank. When the key is allowed to fall back to Run after the engine starts, the white wire goes cold and the purple wires remain hot. The ammeter will show current in the engine circuit, including amps being produced by the alternator. Does that make sense to everyone?

If I've got that right, then the question is on which of the two posts on your new ammeter [ACC (-) and Batt (+)] do you attach (1) the red battery wire, and (2) orange alternator wire and the red wire to the BATT post on the ignition switch. I don't use an ammeter gauge in the ignition panel, so I don't fully understand them, but one possibility is that it doesn't matter, except that hooked up the "wrong" way the needle simply deflects in the "wrong" direction? If the objective is measure amps produced by the alternator, then I presume one would want the needle to deflect in the positive direction to show alternator output when the engine is running? Wired that way, the ammeter needle would deflect in the negative direction when the ignition key was turned to Run without starting the engine, so when the engine is running the ammeter shows the net of alternator production (positive) minus purple-circuit draws (negative)?

The wiring was like that in our new-old boat, similar to the C&C here (http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1341), but I abandoned the ammeter in the panel and replaced it with a voltmeter, then ran the orange alternator output wire 8" to the BATT post on the solenoid instead of 8-10 feet to the ammeter in the ignition panel. Simplified a lot of things.

Maybe someone more familiar with this older ammeter-based panel wiring setup can fill in the gaps.

msauntry
04-13-2009, 09:55 AM
Cole-Hersee has a four position start switch which myself and others have found to be beneficial in that it takes care of the blower with its AUX setting. Its four positions are

AUX- runs the blower only
OFF- yep, its off...
IGN- this powers the engine circuits and gauges, and the AUX (blower)
ST- engine start

It looks like you've got the three position switch, which is the same but lacks the AUX post for the blower.


I'd second Balto's post of eliminating the ammeter and just using a voltmeter on the panel. I seem to recall Catalina 30's having problems with a long run and the multiple harnesses, and the high current of the ammeter wiring only causes problems with these.
Don posted something on the Catalina wiring I believe, if you do a search on this site.
This might be the time to rectify any weaknesses in the stock setup.

An alternative might be to put a voltmeter in the cockpit panel and an ammeter down below, closer to the alternator to avoid the long heavy-gauge wire runs.

sastanley
04-13-2009, 03:12 PM
team118,

I have a 1977 Catalina 30, and I just eliminated the ammeter myself. I may add it back into the circuit in the engine compartment, but what bothered me was the orange wire running all the way to the cockpit & back & losing valuable charging power in the process, especially with the original Motorola alternator only spitting out 13.8 volts.

I also have a diode based isolator in my mix (which further drops charging voltage getting to the battery), and I now have a 16" run from the alternator straight to the isolator.

As others have suggested, I plan to add a volt meter in the cockpit. I am a gadget/gauge freak, so I like to know as much about my engine as possible, but I just don't think an ammeter it is needed. It is more useful in my opinion to have a voltage gauge..If it says 13.8 volts when the engine is running, I know the charging circuit is working!

I couldn't see your diagrams here at work, so I am not able to help you on the other stuff. I'll try to remember to check out this thread when I am at home and don't have any IT nazi's blocking Internet content. :D

team118
04-13-2009, 05:40 PM
Thanks guys!

The info on the blower was great, I'm going down to the boat now to set that up and see if it does the trick.

Still not sure about the ammeter. The new gauge panel is about 3 feet further aft than the old one, but adds 5-6' of wire as it runs through port storage bay.

My Catalina isn't too far from you SaStanley! 1977 #655. Just bought her last September, took ALL the wood out of her over the winter. Stripped out all the wiring, through hulls, plumbing...what was I thinking! She was on the hard for 2 years and now I'm finding all kinds of topside leaks from old and abused caulking....1 step forward 5 steps backward. Sigh.

team118
04-13-2009, 08:58 PM
Caloo Calay oh FRABULOUS Day!

I wired the new engine panel complete with Moyer bought engine gauges...

I hooked up the battery down in the engine bay and ....

The blower turned on and actually blew air OUT of the boat and...and...

the engine turned over! Course the through hulls are all glassed in so it was a quick turn over. But no sparks, no shorts.

To top it off, I also finished the wiring on a new sub-panel I installed in the cockpit for all the outside lights. AND THAT WORKED TOO!

I think there is a very very VERY small light at the end of my tunnel.

THANKS GUYS!
Chris

gmilburn
04-13-2009, 09:38 PM
Thanks so much for the schematic and discussion. I have an identical project planned soon.

One question, my current Ericson 29 has a separate key switch on the instrument panel and a starter button. When I redo the panel with new gauges etc. I want to combine the key and starter button into a single unit, just like an automobile. Is there something I am missing here, or is it a reasonable upgrade.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Gary Milburn
"HydroPhilic" 1977 E-29
Rogers, Arkansas

rigspelt
04-14-2009, 04:43 AM
Good job! What did the ammeter show?

msauntry
04-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Gary,
This is what I was referring to in my reply post above. It'll replace the separate start key and button with one unit (like a car).
Cole-Hersee part number: M-712-BP
4 position switch

This has an AUX terminal for anything you'd like powered by itself or in tandem with the IGN circuits. I found it perfect to control the blower since sometimes you want it on even when the engine isn't running.

There is also a 3 position switch which lacks the AUX terminal and you'll have to have the blower rigged some other way. Many boats have the blower already on another circuit or button, but mine was located inconveniently down in the cabin on the electrical panel and I found the 4 way switch much easier to use from the cockpit. Select whichever one meets your needs.

Either switch is available just about anywhere. I know Don sells the 3 position switch on his site. Most Marine stores carry Cole-Hersee switches from what I've seen and probably have one on the shelf if you want to take a closer look at it.

msauntry
04-14-2009, 09:59 AM
Oh and Team 118...
Well done! First try on the wiring and the engine? You're good!

May your future projects run as smoothly as an Atomic 4.

sastanley
04-14-2009, 10:14 AM
Nice work Chris. I just got my boat in September also, incidentally about the same time I found the Moyer forum.:)


I have not been as ambitious as you with the rebuilding, but will likely need to do so at some point. I have rebuilt the galley counter top (it was found to be rotten when we removed it to get at the engine) & part of the hanging locker. All the bulkheads are wet, but that is just too big a project right now.

All new thru-hulls/seacocks here also & new exhaust from the manifold back. My boat had the original hose and all the metal inside had rusted & "sprung out" of the hose.

The engine came to me in pretty bad shape, so I have focused on it quite a bit this winter. Re-wiring is also in the plan...right now I have nothing on the boat working except the blower and engine circuit...I suspect I've knocked something to the panel or ground buss loose somewhere else in the boat, but there were lots of previous owner 'modifications', so it will take a while to hunt it down.

Keep at it! :cool:

team118
04-14-2009, 12:54 PM
Good job! What did the ammeter show?

I'm not sure what the ammeter said. I couldn't let the motor run without access to water. I was just excited that she turned over and there weren't a million sparks from crossed wires and shorts. Not to say it won't happen later...

When I think back about what I paid for the boat and the number of $100 items I've bought so far, I should have bought the 1984 Tall Rig Catalina 30 for $22k I first looked at last Fall. But no...my wife says it was too much money.

I also found it cool that when I turned on the steaming light, the spreader light goes out. I was worried I'd have to take the mast down to run a line for a dedicated spreader light. Now I won't have to! I've got my eye on one of those new LED Spreader Lights...only $100! heh heh

sastanley
04-14-2009, 10:53 PM
you know that each $100 you spend on the boat is called a "boat buck", right? I haven't told my wife how many boat bucks we've spent this winter.

I took the hose from the intake (thru-hull fitting) to the water pump and stuck it in a 5 gallon bucket of water and got about 4 minutes of run time on the hard. An extra 5-gallon bucket for refilling gets me about 8 minutes :cool:

I only sprayed a little bit of exhaust on the fancy winter cover on the Island Packet behind me, tee hee! :rolleyes:

Jesse Delanoy
04-15-2009, 10:51 AM
Shawn,

This is the first year I've had to run the engine on the hard. I bring a garden hose from a faucet into the cabin. I put one of Don's small ball valves on a garden hose adapter, on the end (the kind that come with engine pressure flush kit. I start the engine, drawing water out of a 5 gallon bucket, and I adjust the inflow from the garden hose into the bucket using the ball valve, until I get the same amount coming in that the engine is drawing out. I can run the engine indefinitely this way.

sastanley
04-15-2009, 02:59 PM
Jesse,

Thanks for the tip...I tried it that way the first time and it worked great, especially since it was the first time I had run it on the hard myself.

Since then I've realized I shouldn't really need to run it that long and in my case (due to proximity & PITA factor of hauling 200' of hose) it is easier to grab two buckets and fill them. Any other long-run engine work can wait until I am in the water and have it under load. If I could simulate that on shore, then we'd be getting somewhere :cool:

knitchie
04-15-2009, 03:39 PM
I'm sure many of us run our engines on the hard, at least for short periods of time. In addition to keeping the impeller lubricated, make sure you aren't turning the prop shaft and burning up the strut. I find it hard to keep my tranny in neutral very long without nursing it.

sastanley
04-15-2009, 09:16 PM
To solve this, I tied the prop to the strut so it wouldn't spin! My worry is burning up the cutlass bearing :(

rigspelt
04-16-2009, 05:34 AM
Is there not some way to lubricate the bearing, if it is hard to get the shaft to stop turning? I guess it would be possible to rig a water shower, but that would require a second garden hose.

sastanley
04-16-2009, 09:14 AM
rigspelt..that is exactly what I thought. I already have abandoned the hose in favor of the easier method (in my particular case) of lugging 10 gallons of water up the ladder for ~10 minutes of run time..why would I lug another 100'+ hose to lubricate the cutlass bearing?

Here is a scenario. Since you need to choke down the amount of water coming into the bucket anyway, you probably have sufficient volume that you could add a Y-valve. I also suppose that if you were to disassemble the stuffing box (possibly because you were planning to replace the packing anyway) that you could have a second hose, coming off the Y valve trickling down the prop shaft to the cutlass bearing. Another idea could be to take a longer hose hanging off the side of the boat taped/lashed to the prop strut spraying on the cutlass bearing.

All this work doesn't really gain you anything, because now you can spin the prop in thin air, so the only gain is the ability to see if your reversing gear is working, but you still aren't really putting the motor under any load.

Again, I just found it easier to tie off the prop :D

Can you tell I am bored at work today and can't wait to get out in this (finally) nice weather here in the Chesapeake and get working on the boat?? :rolleyes: